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Two funny mapping questions
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fraggeur
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 06, 2016 2:58 pm
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1) I just wonder if there is a convention/good practice to fill in the empty space in the map editor? In original levels it seems to be filled in with one of the main solid wall used in the level.
Is there a "danger" to let the wall ID 0 ?

2) What are the purpose of an deaf guard floor if no guard is standing on it? Does it affect patrolling guards and how?
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 06, 2016 5:26 pm
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1) There's not really any convention; I always fill it, but as long as the walls around the visible area are solid you don't even need the edge of the map to be filled.

2) The deaf guard floor code has no effect if an enemy doesn't spawn on top of it.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 06, 2016 7:19 pm
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If anything, I found the empty space in the map to be confusing. It makes it very hard to tell what areas can be accessed and which ones can't. I usually start with a solid map of walls and just draw the floorcodes in.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 07, 2016 7:34 am
   Subject: Re: Two funny mapping questions
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Thanks for your inputs Smile
Chris
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 07, 2016 8:08 am
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The deaf floorcode gets converted to the floorcode beside it, unless there is no floorcode beside it, then it creates a memory leak when you stand on it as doors are opening and closing. I think if you keep the border ID 0 it's easier for the see through corners to create a memory leak with spotvis as the first ray it will hit might be off the map, at least if you don't fill the corners.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 07, 2016 12:01 pm
   Subject: Re: Two funny mapping questions
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fraggeur wrote:
1) I just wonder if there is a convention/good practice to fill in the empty space in the map editor? In original levels it seems to be filled in with one of the main solid wall used in the level.
Is there a "danger" to let the wall ID 0 ?

2) What are the purpose of an deaf guard floor if no guard is standing on it? Does it affect patrolling guards and how?


1) When using MapEdit with DOSBox, for whatever reason the wall plane and object plane would become misaligned occasionally when saving if there wasn't at least two solid tiles around the map border. That is why ultimately I gave up on MapEdit and switched to Havoc's Wolfenstein Editor. I have always started a level with a solid, blank map and filled in the floor codes like Tricob mentioned. As for Wall ID 0? I remember when I first discovered MapEdit and made my first few levels back in early 1998, I didn't understand that you had to use floor codes and made everything "Invalid" that was supposed to be empty space and I used the deaf guard code to prevent all enemies from being alerted at once. I remember some weird things happening. Enemies had no sound when they fired and I would get random vertical lines in the screen sometimes when doors were opened and closed. I personally never use it, even if its in an area where the player can't access (it's probably okay though as long as the player can never make it to an area that has an "Invalid" floor code).
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 07, 2016 2:16 pm
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I had something like this in a test map, because I didn't filled in empty space, At the moment I added a deaf guard floor, the guy couldn't see me anymore (I was right in front of him) but I could kill him.

But I don't want to create any bug or memory leak, so I will stick to fill in things carefully.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2016 10:42 am
   Subject: Re: Two funny mapping questions
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Sorry again a question...

Can we have different floor codes in the same area? I mean not-separated by a door (same room).
AlumiuN
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2016 2:16 pm
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Not really; the floor codes are only connected when the player opens a door between them. You can do some interesting stuff like having a certain set of enemies in a further away area become alerted and leaving the rest to be alerted when the player turns up later as a result, but in general there's not a way to make two floor codes in one area work properly without significant code changes.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2016 6:01 pm
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Add to that, when you mix the floor codes together in one room, the percentages for Kills, Treasure, and Secrets tend to be "wrong" when you load a game and complete a level. This is because the mixed floor codes do something to the checksums of the game data, and it's the checksums that are loaded and saved - not the game data as a whole.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2016 4:31 am
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I noticed that floor codes are much less of a serious business in ECWolf. Their only function seems to be alerting the correct enemies, instead of also acting as the equivalent of Doom's REJECT tables (telling the game which areas don't need to be computed for line of sight checks and so on, which could've been a serious performance improvement back in the day but isn't a serious concern now). On some occasions I messed up the floor codes in my ECWolf mod and only noticed it when re-examining the map in the editor, because it was so harmless in-game. I wonder if it could be helpful in making ECWolf mods with big doorless areas.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2016 1:10 pm
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Okay thanks for the answers. I will challenge my imagination to add doors in a smart way that doesn't ruin the savage side of the map Smile
Barry
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2016 4:15 pm
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Military wrote:
I noticed that floor codes are much less of a serious business in ECWolf. Their only function seems to be alerting the correct enemies, instead of also acting as the equivalent of Doom's REJECT tables (telling the game which areas don't need to be computed for line of sight checks and so on, which could've been a serious performance improvement back in the day but isn't a serious concern now). On some occasions I messed up the floor codes in my ECWolf mod and only noticed it when re-examining the map in the editor, because it was so harmless in-game. I wonder if it could be helpful in making ECWolf mods with big doorless areas.


This is one thing I really like about ECWolf. I remember some strange things happening in the old DOS version if you accidentally had multiple codes in one room. However, one benefit to the classic way of handling floor codes is it makes it much easier to check up on moving guards without them being alerted.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 21, 2016 10:08 am
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Fortunately ECWolf has the Notarget cheat for that (in addition to all sorts of other fun debug stuff such as the Give and Summon debug options)
Chris
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 21, 2016 11:50 am
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Does ECWolf use a different way to handle floorcodes than Wolf4SDL? If not, the difference is probably that SDL fixed this.

edit: Actually nevermind. Wolf4SDL should behave the same as Dos if the floorcodes are valid (map tiles 107-143 and 106).
Matthew
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 28, 2016 3:37 pm
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Tricob wrote:
Add to that, when you mix the floor codes together in one room, the percentages for Kills, Treasure, and Secrets tend to be "wrong" when you load a game and complete a level. This is because the mixed floor codes do something to the checksums of the game data, and it's the checksums that are loaded and saved - not the game data as a whole.


Once again, Tricob doesn't know what he is talking about. The data is stored along with the checksums. The checksums are only used to verify the data. If the checksums don't match, it displays a message saying that the save game file is corrupted, but allows the game to be played anyway.

If the percentages are wrong, it's because the data has been overwritten in memory.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 28, 2016 5:16 pm
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Matthew wrote:
Once again, Tricob doesn't know what he is talking about. The data is stored along with the checksums.
One plane of the map is saved, but not all of them ... unless you alter that part of the code yourself. Check the size of a saved game; it's nowhere near the size of two planes on a map ... let alone three, which the code has enabled by default.

As for the percentage values information, I think you misunderstood. Yes, it loads up the correct values at first. It's when one of those values changes that something is set wrong, and the end-level statistics are no longer correct.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 28, 2016 9:36 pm
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Actually, none of the map planes are saved in saved games. This causes some bugs. For example, when a pushwall is pushed, the original tile will have the original map code if the game is saved and reloaded. This will result in "areabyplayer" going out of bounds if any door opens or closes while the player is standing on it, and "areaconnect" going out of bounds if a door adjacent to the tile opens or closes.

It will also allow the player to get over 100% secrets in some cases, because it allows pushwalls to be pushed multiple times at the same tile.

I've never seen the ratios incorrect unless data has been overwritten in memory. That can be caused by invalid floor codes. When I did trick searching in Wolf3D v1.4GT, I found some map code combinations that cause "areaconnect" to increase/decrease the values in "gamestate" that are used to calculate the ratios.

Keep in mind that wall codes are treated as floor codes if an actor, including the player, is standing on them, or if they are adjacent to a door. Note that having a wall code, or any other invalid floor code, adjacent to a door, usually causes the door to open and close without sound. It also causes "areaconnect" to go out of bounds when the door opens or closes.
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