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Treasury and Score
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Widersacher
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 1:36 pm
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Hi

What is the deal with treasury? I dont really see how these add to the joy of playing.
I mean in the original game you can get a lot of treasures if you push the right wall.
So if your agenda is to get a lot of points the best thing you can do is just to kill everything and then kick every goddamn piece of brick to make sure you wont miss any secret containing some crosses.

You usually get more points for collecting treasures and getting the 100%-completion-boni, than for finishing far below par time.
For example: Episode 1 - Level 1 gives you 15.500 points for kills and treasures plus 30.000 Boni adding up to a score of 45.500. Finishing the game in incredible 0:00 minutes would give you only a 45.000 Bonus.

So this kind of play would need you to spend a lot of time just to collect stuff. If i enjoyed just going around and collecting stuff, I would become a garbage man or something, so I usually do not play for a high score (Is here anyone who does?) and ignoring these little shiny yellow things everywhere.

Consequently, when comes to level design I do not know why bothering and distributing this stuff. Who puts a crown on the floor of a filthy dungeon, filled with unwashed zombies, anyway?

The only thing which would make sense to me where, to give a fair amount of points for a special additional (and not quite easy) action someone is willing to risk.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 8:07 pm
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The treasure is there to add to the gameplay. If all you're picking up is ammo and health, it gets kind of old. I kind of got tired collecting items in Donkey Kong Country because all you ever picked up were bananas. Smile
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 11, 2008 9:44 am
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I do not collect the treasures, because they are pointless. So it does not add to the gameplay at all.
I think if one goes for points (in the original Episodes and at least in a number of add ons) the game is rather boring. And pickung up bananas is at least more fun, if you are under pressure fearing to be [Censored] by a giant ape.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 11, 2008 2:48 pm
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I'm a 100% of everything guy, always have been. If I'm playing a mod and there's some extra parts of it then I can explore and find then I'll search for them. I kind of feel like I have seen the makers full vision when I find everything.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 11, 2008 4:17 pm
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Me too. You're going to have fun in my mod once it's done (optimistically late 2009 Razz)
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 12, 2008 3:16 am
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.....


Last edited by Thomas on Mon May 30, 2011 3:24 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 12, 2008 4:26 pm
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As I said in the "The Lost World Part 1: The Dark Orthodox" thread, "the idea of collecting a target number of gears is refreshing (instead of aimlessly collecting treasure items in the traditional way). The gear motif is reflected in some wall decorations, too, and that's a nice touch". I think treasure collecting can be made more interesting by giving it some sort of framework/tying it into the gameplay in an interesting way.

(and for me, collecting treasure in the original Wolf is worth it for the sound effects alone Cheesy Grin )
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 13, 2008 4:02 am
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Last edited by Thomas on Mon May 30, 2011 3:25 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 15, 2008 4:45 pm
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This has been talked about before, but a more practical use of treasure could be to "buy" weapons and other items. I hear that they're going to do something similar in the new Wolfenstein game. However, if you're going to add a "buying" feature to a Wolfenstein-themed mod, PLEASE make it so that the player can only buy stuff BEFORE he goes on a mission, not during... because it's not like the Nazis are going to sell you weapons just so that you can kill them with those SAME weapons. Razz
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 15, 2008 4:48 pm
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Yay! No score in my mod, just a kill tally!
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 20, 2008 7:23 pm
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The original Wolfenstein and SOD levels are quite liberal in placement of treasure, while BJ Rowan's level design guide suggests to always hide it because it destroys realism. I take an approach somewhat between these and hide the more expensive treasure, but leave things like crosses and especially chalices in places where you might find it, like a dining area.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 3:44 am
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Last edited by Thomas on Mon May 30, 2011 3:25 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 3:59 am
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I like to collect reasure...for the cool sound of it Smile
Though I don't deliverately look for it.
Widersacher
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2009 7:59 am
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UPDATE:
Being discontent with the treasury in the original levels I am trying to do my own set of levels, trying to show how the high score system can help to make an additional challenge and replayability. With following principles in mind:

To get a high score...

1. ... you will have to be quick (it will not be sufficient to get 100% on everything but using three hours for a level)
2. ... you will have to fight for every bonus item. (If you can't get the nazi gold quick you will lose score, because of missed time bonus)
3. ... wasting ammo and health will not be helpful, as they will cost you time.
4. ... you will have to make decisions. (e.g. If there may be two ways to get the silver key, one which is hard and one which is even harder but has some
gold on the way.)

The goal is, to have levels which you have to play several times, in order to see how you can get the maximum score.
Do you have any other suggestions how this can be achieved?


PS: As I have never designed levels before, it may take some time Smile
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2009 10:12 am
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Last edited by Thomas on Mon May 30, 2011 3:26 am; edited 2 times in total
Chris
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 28, 2009 9:47 am
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Widersacher wrote:
Being discontent with the treasury in the original levels I am trying to do my own set of levels, trying to show how the high score system can help to make an additional challenge and replayability. With following principles in mind:

To get a high score...

1. ... you will have to be quick (it will not be sufficient to get 100% on everything but using three hours for a level)
2. ... you will have to fight for every bonus item. (If you can't get the nazi gold quick you will lose score, because of missed time bonus)
3. ... wasting ammo and health will not be helpful, as they will cost you time.
4. ... you will have to make decisions. (e.g. If there may be two ways to get the silver key, one which is hard and one which is even harder but has some
gold on the way.)

The goal is, to have levels which you have to play several times, in order to see how you can get the maximum score.

Sorry to burst your bubble here, but your discontent is merely obliviousness. Out of the 48 levels in wolf3d with par times, there are at least 35 which you can use the methods you described to get a better-than-perfect-ratios score. Take E1L1 for example, you can beat the level in under 1 minute with 100% secret and 100% treasure ratio - pushing your score above the 45,500 limit (the score you would get with all 100% ratios). I won't spoil all the surprises here, just keep playing the original levels with your strategy and I'm sure you'll start to see this as well. Angel

Not that I'm encouraging you not to make your own levels or anything. They sound like they'll be quite fun to play too! Pizza
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 28, 2009 7:08 pm
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Nice to see 'Miss Wolfenstein 1999' has returned! Very Happy Laughing Razz

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Widersacher
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 01, 2009 12:58 pm
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Chris wrote:
Take E1L1 for example, you can beat the level in under 1 minute with 100% secret and 100% treasure ratio - pushing your score above the 45,500 limit (the score you would get with all 100% ratios).


I must admit I did not really try to do the level with all boni on speed, cause it seemed boring to me.
But if you say you can play E1L1 on Death Incarnate with all Boni in less than par, I will have to try harder.

Quote:

I won't spoil all the surprises here, just keep playing the original levels with your strategy and I'm sure you'll start to see this as well. Angel


My strategy so far was to ignore gold, so that would not lead me to anything Smile

Wider

PS: I do not believe.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 28, 2016 11:47 am
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Widersacher wrote:
PS: I do not believe.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Dy8u5G7H1s
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 28, 2016 3:29 pm
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That's insane. High five!
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 28, 2016 4:20 pm
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Very impressive indeed! Smile
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2016 8:58 am
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This was posted so recently but now it says the video is removed.
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 17, 2016 11:23 am
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Yes, same here :/
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 17, 2016 12:13 pm
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Chris has a tendency to edit and remove stuff. Laughing
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