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[Help] Larger than 64x64 Maps
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Codetech84
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 17, 2003 12:41 pm
   Subject: [Help] Larger than 64x64 Maps
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How about adding support to 128x128 sized maps. I mean a support in a editor. I'm just curious, would it work just to alter the MAPSIZE from 64 to 128. I know that Id didn't use the constant everywhere, but in theory would it be simple as that.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 17, 2003 1:04 pm
   Subject: Re: I need bigger maps
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Codetech84 wrote:
How about adding support to 128x128 sized maps. I mean a support in a editor. I'm just curious, would it work just to alter the MAPSIZE from 64 to 128. I know that Id didn't use the constant everywhere, but in theory would it be simple as that.

The next version of WDC (which should be released soon, after I test it a bit more) will have this capability. It will be able to go from 32x32 to 128x128.

I tried changing MAPSIZE to 128 once but couldn't get it to link. I believe this has something to do with the amount of free bytes.
EDIT: The error was: Linking Error: Common Segment exceeds 64K.

So, I tried allowing a map sizes less than 64. I left MAPSIZE as 64, but removed the mapsize checking in WL_GAME.C. The only problem I remember is that the secret doors on levels with a non-64x64 grid didn't work. However, I didn't really get to messing with the code in great depth, so this might be easily overcome.

I'll let you know when this version of WDC is released.

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Codetech84
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 17, 2003 1:34 pm
   Subject: Re: I need bigger maps
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Man, are you psychic or something? Mr Green

The solution to that is accessing the map direcctly from mapseg, without converting it to maptile array during the loading process.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 18, 2003 6:55 am
   Subject: Re: I need bigger maps
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Codetech84 wrote:
Man, are you psychic or something? Mr Green

Laughing Nah, someone else had mentioned it to me and I was able to speed the whole map loading process up in WDC quite a bit, so I decided to add it.

Codetech84 wrote:
The solution to that is accessing the map direcctly from mapseg, without converting it to maptile array during the loading process.

I'll give it another look.

By the way, WDC v1.0.90 has been released on http://winwolf3d.tripod.com/
This version will allow you to create non 64x64 maps. Right now you have to change one map at a time. I might add a 'mass-resizer' in the future though.

Have fun. Please let me know if you get a non 64x64 map grid working.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 25, 2003 12:16 am
   Subject: Imagine what kind of par times those levels would have...
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Yup, having maps bigger than 64x64 would be sweet. I know I've thought about it several times, and have had many conversations regarding bigger maps with people like Gary and Jack; so you're certainly not alone with this thought. The main problem for me, in this case, would be running out static objects and enemies... because I run out of them all the time even on 64x64 mode. Smile

I guess you can simplify/knock off a few guard routines to save room, or decrease the number of total guards so that you can get more objects (for each two MAXACTORS you take off in Wl_Def.h, you can have 15 more MAXSTATS... interestingly enough). I've seen somewhere in ID_CA that the game stores (at default) two or three maps at once into memory; maybe that can be accessed and used to have a 128x64 map - although I've never tried it. I guess that's why the game loads so fast at the Spear of Destiny level, which could be another way of doing it (making a teleport that makes you unknowingly switch between levels as you hit a certain floor).

As for making an editor that allows this, it's cool that you've included that option in your program Adam. Even if we can't figure out how to add a 128x128 map into the game, it would still be alot of fun just to create a level like this - to see what kind of crazy labyrinths we'd be able to come up with. I think it would be easier to impliment this by using 4 maps in Mapedit that somehow connect, just for memory issues... but you never know; anything is possible. Wink
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 25, 2003 12:49 am
   Subject: Re: I need bigger maps
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The limitation in guards/static objects/stc... can be pushed a little further.
Maybe even remove the bounds altogether, meaning altering the Linked list system to be a dynamic list, that would expand if necessary. Ofcourse it couldn't be extended forever.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 25, 2003 6:27 am
   Subject: Re: Imagine what kind of par times those levels would have..
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It'd be nice to be able to non-64x64 maps to work, but I agree that it'd be tough to scatter the static objects and enemies around to make a nice, consistant looking level using the current limits.

The whole 'piecing more than one map together' is definitely interesting. I'd wondered myself about using teleports to make the level look bigger, but that would probably mean that if you went 'back' to a previous level's location, all guards would be alive again, right? Unless going 'back' was was not even implemented.

Glad I could add it to WDC. It's always interesting to get something new, even if no one can get it to work at that moment... it becomes a challenge. I imagine that someone will come up with a working solution soon, either using a larger map or by piecing them together.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 24, 2003 11:20 pm
   Subject: Re: I need bigger maps
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Not to gloat, but in Assault on Castle Totenhammer, all levels end, skipping the loading screen and intermission screen, instantly. All it does is 'fizzle in,' and that 'fizzle' can be easily removed. One thing I'd like to do with this, would be keeping the player's current direction. It wouldn't be hard, I'm just lazy. =\
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 26, 2003 1:04 am
   Subject: Re: I need bigger maps
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I know what you're saying. No offense but we need bigger maps not level warping without loading screen. That's just a cheesy trick, which would not make it look like the level is bigger. And it would create issues with guards, because they couldn't follow you behind the level borders.

If you know what I mean...

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 26, 2003 1:55 am
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Yes, I know you're talking about larger maps. I was just commenting on what Adam was saying. About his though of 'connecting' maps, all of that. It does create issues with the guards.. I try not to place guards in a way so that they can follow you into the ending room. That was a good point you had, and I am glad you mentioned it. I think I'll pay more attention to my guard placement.
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 26, 2003 1:10 am
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I think what Chris meant (and how I took it) is that two or more maps would be loaded at once and pieced together into one map dynamically. This would make one seamless level... IF it could be done...

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 27, 2003 1:04 pm
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Well, I don't know.. However it will (if it will) be done, the person who figures it out will probably have a tough time doing it.. I think it would probably just be easier to make the maps 128x128, but it was brought up that there are memory issues and sprite limits.. What could be done would be (as was mentioned) the map would be split into parts, and whenever the player reaches the border for the next quadrant, the game would load the new section, and save a copy of the previous area, so that the player could return to it, and the guards would still be dead. Of course, this saved map file would be some sort of temporary file.. Perhaps what would happen would be while the player is in the game, Wolf would create four temporary files - one for each quardrant of the map. Then again, the 'save game' feature would have to be changed a bit. Either to save all of these 'temporary files,' or to limit saves to only between levels. Either way, this is a whole lot of work. Let's leave it to DarkOne. (Just kidding, DarkOne) Laughing
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