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Beyond the Grave [OFFICIAL RELEASE DATE - October 31]
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 4:35 am
   Subject: Re: Beyond the Grave [OFFICIAL RELEASE DATE - October 31]
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Yeah, this looks pretty great. Got its own unique atmosphere. And it looks like I'm not the only one to ever consider using door side textures for floor and ceiling too! Props to whoever came up with that particular idea, I'm sure it will look better than the usual approach, or lack thereof. Especially on doors that link two different-looking rooms.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 1:32 pm
   Subject: Re: Beyond the Grave [OFFICIAL RELEASE DATE - October 31]
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Military wrote:
And it looks like I'm not the only one to ever consider using door side textures for floor and ceiling too! Props to whoever came up with that particular idea,
The first time I saw it demonstrated was in Orb Of Dilaaria.
Cyanosis
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 3:30 pm
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Dark, dreary, oozing with atmosphere!
ThunderEnema
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2017 5:19 pm
   Subject: Re: Beyond the Grave [OFFICIAL RELEASE DATE - October 31]
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Just a quick update... Beyond the Grave now has a facebook page as well as some new promotional artwork done by friend Jesse Stevens:

BEYOND THE GRAVE FACEBOOK PAGE




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PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 6:16 am
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Wow, those look fantastic!
Atina
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 12:17 am
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Pretty nice artwork. I like the theme and the dark western stuff. Been a while since i watched Clint Eastwood or Django but more like that is always cool =p
Just i have a issue with it. Each time i see screenshots it screams identity crisis at me. It literally yells "Hey I'm Hexen and Blood" and i'm not sure if it can shake off those boundaries.

Anyways, looking forward to try it
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 2:16 am
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Atina,

I completely get where you are coming from. I feel the same way about the project seeming to have an identity crisis, especially after looking at a lot of the older screenshots from years ago, back when I wasn't completely certain on what direction I was taking the project. It wasn't until a couple years ago that I started having a more concrete vision for the project. In hindsight, I really should have refrained from posting anything about the project until my vision was more grounded.

Quote:
It literally yells "Hey I'm Hexen and Blood


I get why you think that, but the fact is: this is a mod (one could argue that it is a total conversation) and not an original video game. Modders borrow/modify from other game sources and as a result their projects encapsulate a lot of the same feeling/aesthetic as the original game sources. Is there something about using Heretic/Hexen-based textures/sprites with Blood-based textures/sprites that you don't like? I am completely open to constructive criticism.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 3:38 am
   Subject: Re: Beyond the Grave [OFFICIAL RELEASE DATE - October 31]
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The issue is not using art from other games, we all do that.

It's just that some games/art are more recognizable/overused than others and that make the mod to look like a new mappack for the old game. That's why I try to use art from less known shooters (In Pursiut of Greed, Daggerfall, ShadowCaster, Rise of the Triad, Witchaven, even Redneck and other rare build games can fit...). Yes, Hexen is less overused than Doom (pretty much no-no in TCs), but still.
Especially inconsistent often looks a mix from Build Engine with Doom engine game, different resolution, art style. Sprity look vs. realistic.

Another thing is the amount each mod presents in your creation. Using only 2 main inspirations makes it hard to set a unique TC setting, you feel most of the time either in Blood or in Hexen (on the other hand, the more sources you use, the more artistic inconsistency can become).
So the best way IMHO is to use art from a few games mixed with your own art or edited/heavy edited art from other games, something to make them looking more unique and fitting for your particular mod.
But that is a challenge in hi-res mods, that's the main reason I keep working on 64x64 (beside "classic look"). It gives me ability to make new art and art variants/animations that make my mod/TC look more unique, without prolonging the development for years. You can see that none of my TC felt like a mappack of famous game. Yes, alot of new art from scratch, but on 64x64 it's more doable

Especially weapons set a very big feel of which game it's based on.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 4:11 am
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I appreciate the input Doomjedi. Your insight is helpful. Unfortunately, I am at a point in the project where I canít invest very much time into giving it an artistic make-over (it does not help that graphics/art is not my strong suit) but I will remember your advice for a later improved version of BTG and/or a new project.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 4:40 am
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You're welcome Smile

And as I wrote on recent days on the other forum, much anticipate this mod, I respect how patient you are with the mod, you do take modding seriously and try to do quality mods.
Screens are impressive, your dedication to this project as well.
Atina
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 6:07 am
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I know what you mean with being uncertain about the direction. I have several projects that got redesigned or lost in madness. At this point it wouldn't make sense to change all anyways =p

It's a mod and a total conversion. How to say it... Some of what Doomjedi already explained. The mods of Madwolf are a close example with similar style and have lots of borrowed resources but they have still their own identity somewhere. It's not really something so bad. I like Hexen and i like Blood even more. But being reminded of Blood/Hexen on each step while also being something like Blood (Darkwatch, Dark Tower movie) concept wise (gunslinger, cults, western, especially after the new artwork) makes it also stay more likely in the shadow of them instead of making own new impressions or memories.

There are plenty of inofficial Django sequels or also Sartana movies as the main character of BTG is called like that ><
Some are better, some are worse, some are basically same, some even copy movie scenes from the original. But in the end they are all linked to the original.

I probably gonna like the mod quite some since it's exactly what i would like as a shooter...fantasy, horror, gothic, western
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 9:50 am
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I appreciate the criticism Atina. You brought up some valid points. Yes Madwolf does have his own distinct style in his mods despite borrowing many resources from other sources. But, unlike me, Madwolf is an artist, so he can manipulate textures and sprites in ways I cannot, so I have to work within the limits of my abilities.

And yes I have seen quite a few of those Sartana and Django unofficial sequels. Most of them are terrible and not always in a ďso terrible, itís funnyĒ kind of way either. But quite a few of them are entertaining to watch. I purposefully named the character Sartana as an homage. There are quite a few easter eggs in the game that involve old western and horror references.


On another note, my beta testers have pointed out aspects of the game that give the game its own identity. Hopefully, in playing it, you see that.

Again, I appreciate the insights you and Doomjedi have given. Thank you!

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 4:36 pm
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My main issue with using graphics from other mods is that they're *not* made with the Wolf3D palette in mind, and even with major "cosmetic surgery", the distorted use of colors in the Wolf3D palette still shows. It's usually a bit obvious that the images were made with a different palette than the one the game is using.

I worked around this with many images by loading the graphics with their original palette, changing to the Wolf3D palette without converting any of the image's colors, saving it to a BMP file, and then running the file through RecolorBMP. But this process is very tedious and time-consuming. And when you deal with rotating enemy sprites, it starts to become downright impractical.

I think it's safe to say that - when using graphics from another game in your mod - it will usually be obvious as long as the Wolf3D palette is used. And some people are more content with that fact than others.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 5:00 pm
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I agree Tricob; that is why I didnít use the wolf3d palette for BTG. I used the Doom palette, with some modifications made to better suit some
of the build engine resources.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 5:26 pm
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I was never 100% happy with the palettes I browsed through, so I went and made my own. I haven't posted it anywhere yet, but anyone who's interested can always PM me for a BMP file and ChaosEdit file of it. Smile
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 05, 2017 4:03 am
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I like that the graphics are reminiscent of those games (Hexen, Quake, Blood) but knowing everything is going to be re-used in new ways that aren't making the overall experience predictable (because it will not play like Hexen, Quake or Blood).
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 05, 2017 9:11 pm
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I won't disclose any specific details, but the game definitely doesn't play like Hexen, Blood or Quake... there might, of course, be similarities, but it's not a carbon copy despite me borrowing/modifying from those three games. Thanks for the comment Cyanosis. Smile

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