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Ancestry, first names, and cultural name changes
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stathmk
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 6:34 pm
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Confusing People With The Same Names:

Iím sorry if I confused you with somebody else.

The 1990s: I remember that in my high school years that I confused somebody with a name like Janice Donnelly with Janice Connelly. There were also 2 guys named Jose Hernandez, and 2 guys Iíd known named Grant Snyder in the 1990s. Once I had gotten a phone call meant for the veteran with the same first and last name as me who was in Vietnam. Somebody in my city had the same first and last name as the mayor and got phone calls meant for him by mistake. Somebody named Jeremy born on July 10 was confused at the doctor with another Jeremy with the same last name born on July 10. I remember in the 1990s that news reporters confused one man named John Huang with another John Huang.

I remember that according to my Criminology class that about 80 or 100 years ago that a male black prisoner named Chris Smith was confused with his dead ringer cousin in prison who was also named Christopher Smith. They didnít like it.

About 5 years ago, I bet that some people watched a homemade Youtube video with stunned silence that, "...the gunman who shot Gabrielle Giffords was working in Washington DC. ..." We didnít appreciate that. It was actually somebody with the same first and last name of the gunman.

Cultural Name Changes:

Historical Figures: In German, the Pharoahs and Roman Emperors donít necessarily have the same names as in English. My Dad had read Dr. Zhivago and I donít think that youíd like it. In Dr. Zhivago in Russia, they have a birth certificate name and a formal name? It's like Sasha is the nickname for Alexander? I remember from high school that Vladimir I Lenin and Joseph Starlin are white-washed English names from The Cyrillic. 10 pages of English is about 12 pages in Russian Cyrillic. In Italian and Spanish, Christopher Columbus was actually Christobal Colon, Hernando Cortez was Hernan with a different last name, and Julius Caesar was Gaius Iulius Chesare. Arabic also doesnít always translate. Saddam Husseinís real name was something like Saddam Husseini Al-Tikriti.

Hebrew: Jesus Christ may have been Joshua, Jeshua, Yeshua, Ieshua, Christi Jesu, Chrestus Jesu, or something about the same. I had heard that The Apostles may have had name changes and that Mark in particular was somebody else. Solomon was Shlomo or somebody else? Written Ancient Hebrew didnít have vowels, capitalization, or spaces. So, if you read ďRDSĒ in Hebrew, then how do you know if itís Redsea or Reedsea? Thereís a theory that Moses actually crossed The Reed Sea, but not The Red Sea.

Spanish or Portuguese: There was a drug dealer named Pablo Escobar, but if you know Hispanic culture, Escobar is not his full name. There was a drug dealer in America named El Chapo Guzman. Thatís not his original first name and not his full last name.

Changing Surnames Each Generation: In Iceland, you might name your son Eric or Christian. Then he grows up and his son will have the last name Ericsen or Christensen. A different surname each generation is sometimes like that in India and Arabia. It may have been like that in ancient Britain and Israel.

Greek: There was a Prime Minister of Palestine with an almost Greek-sounding name. He shortened it to Yassir Arafat. Jennifer Aniston is part Greek and I had heard that her fatherís name was shortened from Anistonoupolis. Stath may be shortened from Stathis, Stathus, Stathakis, Stathoupolis, or changed from Staedt. I have some bewildering postcards and books from Greece that I would love to partially translate. Iím most closely related to The British anyways.

White-washing names into English: In Japan, your name might be changed into a white-washed name if you come into an English language country and Iím bewildered since I donít know Japanese. If youíre Greek, Russian, or some of The Spanish or Brazilian Portuguese, then your names might be shortened if you move to America. There are Hindus in India who changed their names as they go into different stages in their lives and please donít ask me what thatís about. Some of the people who only speak English have a misunderstanding of Hinduism because 1 god might be somebodyís son, father, husband, brother, and they get counted as more than 1 god by accident. Names with non-Romance alphabets like The Greeks, Hebrews, and Russians would change their names at Ellis Island at about the year 1900 as immigrants.

Summing it up:

On The Wolfenstein forums, Valts is Valdo from Estonia while Vaultkeeper is Barry Christian. Chris, Princess Peach, and Chokster37 are the same person. Dark_wizzie and allthisandwolf3d are the same person. I hope this clears up confusion.

So those are some stories about Ancestry, first name confusion, and confusing cultural name changes. I think itís important for me to mention that I shortened this post by half because there are other things about Ancestry that are irrelevant to you if youíre not related to me. I donít think that youíd understand or appreciate these things as much as me. I have no idea if this post will get 0 responses or about 100.

My name is Matt by the ways. Thereís a Matthew on the forum and I donít know his last name.

Do any of you have cultural names from your homeland? Whatís your first name? Do you have a good cultural story about your Ancestry? Iím sorry if I confuse you with somebody else. Or at least briefly type in your first name in this thread because I don't want to confuse you with somebody else.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 10:45 pm
   Subject: Re: Ancestry, first names, and cultural name changes
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stathmk wrote:

Hebrew: Jesus Christ may have been Joshua, Jeshua, Yeshua, Ieshua, Christi Jesu, Chrestus Jesu, or something about the same.

Iisus Christos in russian.
Names in the Bible (and back then in general) are either theophoric or egyptian (which are also theophoric, only for Egypt gods), so a name back then either started with name of God or ended with it (beside a short-lived fashion of giving names of small animals, Shafan, Dvora...), Ya/Yehu/Yahu/Yeho for Jehova.
So unless you can recognize a God name at the start or end of a name - none of it could be a correct name.

Quote:
Solomon was Shlomo or somebody else?
Shlomo, that's what hebrew Bible says, but there are other ways to intrrpret his name for reasons mentioned.
Moses didn't exist and so didn't cross ANY sea, unless you're religious person who is ready to accept things without any evidence of events and against all natural laws.
But if he would, it would be a Reed Sea (Yam Suf in hebrew, still one of the names of Red Sea), not a Red Sea.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 9:42 am
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I had heard before that Moses didn't exist. I had also heard that Moses' number of Jews that had fled was overexaggerated. I had heard that Exodus or Deuteronomy was first a poem. The 10 plagues of Egypt were exaggerated or the 10 levels of Egyptian Hell. Christians normally interpret God as a man. Some Jews and some Muslims interpret God as beautiful light. But in The Moses story, God is interpreted as a burning bush!? It was a strange thing for me to see in The 10 Commandments movie as a child. It's like Zoroaster's fire or the fire stolen by Prometheus. Akhenaten (Tut's father) was the first Egyptian monotheist, not Moses.

I had forgotten to mention something about the names on wolf3d.darkbb.com. Chris liked unicorns and had all of these usernames. AdamMasterArt or somebody else joined the forum and posted his unicorn mod. I had confused him with Chris.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 1:50 pm
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You guys make my names-related history look pathetic. Very Happy I don't have many interesting names-related experiences, and mine don't even relate to historical figures. My mother knew someone in church named Charlie Brown. I knew someone in high school named Holly Wood. And lastly, someone with the same first and last name as me wrote and directed a major motion picture, and I didn't even hear about it until years afterward ("Donnie Darko").
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 5:29 pm
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I laughed when I had heard your Charlie Brown and Holly Wood comments. My schoolmate was a girl with a Mom that happened to marry a Reed, making her named Donna Reed like the actress. I had heard of 2 brothers with names pronounced Orongello and Laymongello, but their names are spelled Orangejello and Lemonjello. I had heard of a girl with the first name Chanda and the last name Lear. Jay Leno would should wedding headlines of couples with the strangest last names like Harder-Johnson. A student that I met visiting from India found it hilarious that Americans have the strangest last names like Siemens and Cummings. What would Freud say about that?

I had heard an urban legend that the name Superman was an inside joke made by the comic book writers because Superman contains the letters for sperm in that order. The urban legend is probably unfounded and false, but it's interesting.

EDIT: I've heard of Donnie Darko, but I haven't seen it yet.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 5:36 pm
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Oh, I had forgotten to type some things. Santa Claus, Indiana has The Holiday World theme park and I've been there. I had heard on the radio that there's a brother and sister in Santa Claus, Indiana named Merry Christmas and Jiminy Christmas and these are the real names. A Florida Santa Claus impersonator legally changed his name to Santa Claus.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2018 2:32 am
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stathmk wrote:
I had heard before that Moses didn't exist.

All the Patriarchs (beside Avraham who has indian name) have Egyptian names - including Isaak, Moses, Yaakov, only in egyptian their names make sense and easily explained.
Which is suspicious - as at that times names reflected the Gods you believed in and there is no way a person believing in Jehova would take such a name.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2018 2:03 pm
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In the days of the Great Egyptian Pharaohs, many people believe there were different gods in control of different things, rather than one god that controlled all things. But in some religions in days past, people found it hard to believe that one god was in control of everything, so we had things like the Great Volcano God, the God Of Lightning, the God Of The Mighty Waters ... the list goes on. We even got a taste of this from an old Beavis And Butthead episode, strangely enough - The Great God Of Feces. And no, I'm not making that up. Smile
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 06, 2018 1:41 am
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Little people know that Bible writers had different view about Jehova (being written by different authors at different times) and his place among Gods, NONE of it was truly monotheistic or even close to it.
You can re-read the Bible, especially knowing hebrew.
There are only a few verses from later Persian period that sounds monotheistic, but the rest are clearly polytheistic, and I can put endless quotes there, including many verses you know well (10 commandments or Shma Israel) and just got used to them so much than you read there what it's not there, and ignoring much or reading bad translations.
Moreso - The was many Jehova, as is was many Baal. This is archeological fact (Jehova Samaria, Jehova Teman and most probably Jehova Beit-El), and the "monotheistic reform" was against many Jehovas (every place and temple has on) as it was against other gods, to make only Jerusalem Jehova the only one.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kuntillet_Ajrud

Moreso, small peoples (Ammon, Moav, Edom, probably Midians too) worshipped only one God long before Israel, even if they didn't reject existence of others. There are even Sumerian quotes that sounds in similar fashion as Bible's about Jehova "every people has their Gods, we'll work Nabu" etc...
Small tribes didn't need a pantheon of Gods, one was enough, big empires needed more Gods, maybe connecting many local gods (without rejecting them) in lands/cities taken over into one pantheon. Moreso, despite belief in many Gods, each Sumerian city (and not only sumerian) was dedicated mainly to one God (of the gods) with his temple, connecting them into one "country" could lead to a Pantheon of Gods, with made heirarchi and ancestry.

But it's false dichotomy to think people believed either in one God or in many God, true monotheism is much later than you think (and not by hebrews), and has many intermediate stages for the transition of many Gods into one God, with hierarchy and slow absorbing of properties by one God.

As this is my hobby and research of many years, I can obviously say much more about the subject.


Last edited by doomjedi on Sat Jan 06, 2018 9:27 am; edited 2 times in total
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 06, 2018 8:25 am
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doomjedi wrote:
Little people know that Bible writers had different view about Jehova (being written by different authors at different times) and his place among Gods, NONE of it was truly monotheistic or even close to it.
Indeed, this was why I used the word "many" rather than the word "most". Enough people shared the "multiple god" belief for it to make an impact. But that doesn't mean I think those people were a majority. And I can never prove that there were, anyway. Smile

Quote:
But it's false dichotomy to think people believed either in one God or in many God, true monotheism is much later than you think (and not by hebrews), and has many intermediate stages for the transition of many Gods into one God, with hierarchy and slow absorbing of properties by one God.

As this is my hobby and research of many years, I can obviously say much more about the subject.
You certainly have that right. Smile

I apologize if I sounded defensive in my Pharaoh-related post. The thing is, Egypt's system of "multiple gods" and what they represented - that was a system that I found interesting. I would've loved to see what it had evolved into in the 21st Century. But Rome came by and put that all to a sudden stop. So as far as what future it could've had, all I can do is just wonder. Sad
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 06, 2018 9:45 am
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Yes, I always say - some random events to be even a bit different - we'd easily have today all main religions worship Marduk or Anu and not Jehova and Jehova would be among old unused gods just as most don't know Dumuzi, Enki or Enlil.
I know historically why Jehova "won" the popularity vote (long subject by itself with long historic analysis), but that's mostly luck - and what even more interesting - jews were forced by others through laws and destruction to make Jehova more "spiritual" and attractive to those who will later spread his name, jews fighted against it - and if jews have won - Jehova would share Marduk destiny and forgotten - because sacrifice of animals - would not get the vote of more progressive Romans.
So Jehova won because of those who jews hate the most and still annually consider a big "cry" - Babylonian, Persian, Roman who took Jehova statues out of the Temple and forbid to work his statues and sacrifice animals to him in bloody ceremonies (which Roman saw as barbarian), making him more phylosophical versus anthropomorphic entity he always was, eastern mystery God they work without physical image and animal sacrifice.
Also Babylonian diaspora brought jews their best ideas of that great civilization that they later brought home and made into Judaism (even all jewish months are Babylonian), it's clearly seen from Bible text, including its opening chapter and its relation to Babylonian mythology.
So jews and their Jehova won from their so-called "bad" events, and also - jews are not first in anything (my research of ancient texts clearly taught me), they have the biggest talent to make foreighn things and inventions - their own and claim the firstborn right for them. They do it oh so well, but research unveils it.

It's a miracle - Jehova, according to Bible verse themselves is a small foreign god that came from Edom/Midian, one God worshipped of a small tribe (we know them from Egyptian documents to be "Shasu Yahoo)", that for some reasons became big later in Canaan to absorb later all other Gods into him, not before the most laters texts of the Bible.
It's one of the more fascinating story of any God ever, the greatest achievement of any God, and though that we can reflect a history of evolution of a God Thought, especially by later big empires.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2018 9:08 am
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I'm back onto the topic of ancestry, first names, and cultural name changes. If Muhammad/Mohammed lived in Arabia, then I think I can infer that Muhammad spelled with "Mu" is one Arabian surname and Mohammad spelled with "Mo" is another Arabian surname. Does anybody know the nuances of why Abram had to change his name to Abraham in Genesis? Does anybody know the nuances of why Paul changed his name to Saul or vice versa?

Jesus is Esa in a city that fits the description of Damascus in the Book of Maryam in the Koran. Mary is Maryam in The Koran. But it's an unconventional story of Jesus and Mary that's not quite Catholic and not quite Greek Orthodoxy. I don't know if you'd like it.

I'll have to respond to other facets of this thread at a later time.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2018 11:16 am
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Quote:
Does anybody know the nuances of why Abram had to change his name to Abraham in Genesis?

I know quite some religious explanations, from adding God's name/letter (h') into his name (names back then were theophoric and started and ended with God's name that now had to add Jehova "h" to it), to changing from "Ab Ram" ("High Father") to "Ab Raham" - "Father of Many" after God's promise, there are other explanations (we need to analyze deeply old semitic languages for that)...
Obviously Brahma - Avraham being Brahman in another feasible explanation for his name.
As I do not believe it's a real person who actually changed his name - I think we should seek answers in the narrative of the teller, who he wants to tell as and I think we wrote that for people who could understand the reason for the name change (and so needed no explanation in the text, it was obvious to the reader)
We have a few name changes in the Bible, including that of Jakob and Abraham's wife as well. AFAIR we have such cases in mesopotamian mythology as well.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2018 6:18 pm
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Nova is an American show on PBS (Public Broadcasting Service) about Science, Technology, Archeology, and History. I want to watch the January 24 episode about the Petra ruins in Jordan. These are the same ruins with an exterior made famous from Indiana Jones and The Last Crusade. Petra? Why is the Apostle Peter sometimes called Simon or Petra?

God's name/letter is "h" on the end?? If Abraham's wife is Sara/Sarah, then I've heard whether the "h" is on the end or not means "princess" or "queen." Sulgir was a Mesopotamian king and the "r" on the end means "king" according to one of my professors.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2018 10:25 pm
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In case of Abraham it's in the middle, which is indeed untypical. "h" is a God's letter as in hebrew " h' " is a short name of Jehova (read "Adonai", "The Master"). Also there are two "h" in tetragrammaton.
I don't claim it's the best explanation, I just listed a few I know. The second one (Av Raham, "Father of many") is more probable, change of meaning and not adding God into it.
There is no doubt that typical Jehova ending/beginning is Ya/Yaho/Yeho (there was a difference between South and North "Israel") in this, adding "h" is not typical and so is far from the best explanation, and I think we don't have yet an explanation that would feel 100% true.
And original names don't feel theophoric at least for known mesopotamian gods.

We have to take into account that name changes came after promise to be origin of "many" people, and name changes probably relate to that. King/Princess is totally out of historical context for those characters.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 12:41 pm
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Maybe not the intent of this thread, but this sparked an idea in my mind that seemed mildly related and to go down a route of talking about my name and deriving some meaning from it. This will sound really pretentious, but if you read the of rest of the post in literal sense, then you are doing it wrong. Razz



My three names stem, originate, from the meanings:


1.) "Carrier of Christ" or "Christ bearer"

While theologically in modern America, where I live, such a meaning has quite a different context than what I imagine it would in ancient times which would be more akin to: "one who embodies the living logos"; one who generates order from chaos.


2.) "God's peace" or "Divine peace"

Other sources point to it meaning "Harmony" or even "Traveler" as there was a possible merging of two once unique names.
It is also my father's name, which in a mythic context, is something dead, is something that the living son must metaphorically update and revive through action: Harmony, or peace, through conscious thought and action rather than inaction. Inaction would be something stagnate, something akin to sloth, which in a metaphorical sense is something I do indeed struggle with.

I do not see a tie to "traveler" except maybe through the need for movement, or by one seeking unknown lands, or by tying it to my last name...

3.) "Freedom" or "of a people exempt from taxes or paying tribute"

Not paying tribute suggests one who has no lord, one who is self-governing, one who is not tied to nor serves a master, physical or ideological. Metaphorically, this is not something I always successfully embody, though I have both consciously and unconsciously strived in life to be this sort of person: One who is not ideologically bound to a group and prefers being merely a step outside from those I am most similar to.



Funnily enough, my name holds a mini example of "The Hero's Journey" inside it. Order from chaos with truth - resurrecting harmony in unknown land - independence from others. From a self-centered perspective, living out my name is the story of the ronin who fights tyranny.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 26, 2018 12:30 pm
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stathmk wrote:
Nova is an American show on PBS (Public Broadcasting Service) about Science, Technology, Archeology, and History. I want to watch the January 24 episode about the Petra ruins in Jordan. These are the same ruins with an exterior made famous from Indiana Jones and The Last Crusade. Petra? Why is the Apostle Peter sometimes called Simon or Petra?

God's name/letter is "h" on the end?? If Abraham's wife is Sara/Sarah, then I've heard whether the "h" is on the end or not means "princess" or "queen." Sulgir was a Mesopotamian king and the "r" on the end means "king" according to one of my professors.
OK. I asked why the Apostle is sometimes called Peter or Petra. So I overheard from my TV all of the Petra documentary while I was checking email: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/ancient/building-wonders.html#petra-lost-city To make a long story short, Petra means stone and Peter must mean stone or rock.
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