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Leaving wolf3d modding
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doomjedi
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2018 10:09 am
   Subject: Leaving wolf3d modding
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I've decided to leave Wolf3D modding and community (considering leaving support only to Splitwolf project)

I have pride in my work, and won't agree to replace art in long-released mods, just because someone wants to bully me and my team and make a personal war out of it - taking our team as a target.
Sonder was enough for me - never again will I replace art in released mods just to please someone.
I had enough scrapping my hard work (even if some are edits of art of others) in this community to want to keep modding Wolf3D or at all.

Stop bullying you can only by not accepting bully demands. I've now removed 3 of my TCs, 6 years of my dedicated work, but I won't accept demand to replace art, I better take the mods down, I'll go down - but under my terms. Mods art ART - they are meant to be and to look like they were meant to look, not to be ripped apart by "rights" demands.
I don't want to be part of community that can terrorize someone because of some pixels done ages ago, used with proper credit in long released mods. Because of actions made by someone else without my permission, control and knowledge.
Community where it's even possible.

Time to go.

I love many people in this community, and it's sad to go.
I'm almost crying. But I had enough.
I want to thank you all for your help, support and just for being there when I needed you, when I had nowhere to go. Giving me home, roof, shelter.
Being my friends, pals, team members, just people whom I liked to share my creative passion with, my thoughts, my happy and sad moments.

...now I'm really crying......can't keep writing.

Goodbuy
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2018 11:04 am
   Subject: Re: Leaving wolf3d modding
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I'm not going to stop you, Max ... but remember that there are bullies everywhere. If you try to run away from every place that has bullies, you may soon find yourself with nowhere left to run. I don't think it's healthy to be surrounded by people you can't trust, and that's one reason I want to leave the state I live in now.

I instead try to solve the problems of where I am. It's not a selfish act. When the area is better for me as a whole, it's also better for other people who come to that same place ... or other people who are in that place right now. Two of my idols did these things, and I will always commend them for it.

Whatever course of action you take, I'm happy to see you open up about this instead of just disappearing without explanation. Thank you for doing so. Smile
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2018 4:50 pm
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I'm sad to see you leave but I wish you all the luck in the world. I love all your mods. Your a Good Friend who helped me at times. I'm sorry i honestly dont have much to say but Be Strong and push on through.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2018 12:15 pm
   Subject: Re: Leaving wolf3d modding
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doomjedi wrote:
...Stop bullying you can only by not accepting bully demands. I've now removed 3 of my TCs, 6 years of my dedicated work, ...
I have been bullied but not for the same reasons. You've removed 3 of your total conversions!? Contact me if you ever want me to post the 3 of them on my web space. Within a year or 2, I want to make a long spreadsheet of all of the mods on my web space and with links to mods where they don't want it on my web space because of their frequent updates or for whatever reason. I might update it every year after that if I'm up to it.

I might work on 1, 2, or 3 mods of my own. Don't take yourself too seriously if I sometimes ask you for permission to use some of your sprites or code.

Thank you for all that you have done over the 12 or 13 years. I'm 38 and I thought that you're 39. We have our lives ahead.

...Oh. ... I had almost forgotten. Brian sent me a Facebook friend request at his new account. I thanked him for friending me even if it's just for me to know that he's still around and still checking his messages once in a great while. With Parkinson's they don't like to type. I just want you to know he's still around.
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2018 12:20 pm
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Not sure I understand the whole story, but I find it sad and a great loss in that small community.
Hope you will stay around somehow. Otherwise, all the best to you.
Sigma64
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2018 6:40 pm
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I would like to thank you for your countless contributions to the Wolf3D modding community, and I wish unto you the best of luck in whichever path you shall now tread.

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Majik Monkee
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2018 9:09 am
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I remember the details behind the Sonder fiasco, I didn't realize it was still an ongoing thing, granted I haven't been present here as much as I once was. I am curious though if any other modders have received any grief over their art or theme choices, and if the harassment is coming from inside or outside of the community.

We live in an era where people aren't afraid to loudly voice their opinions on art, and take great offense if the artist doesn't conform to their expectations. I for one would probably follow suit and just hang up my keyboard in a similar situation, but I must say I'm sorry to see you being bullied into doing so, you've made great contributions to the community, my friend.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2018 10:30 am
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Sorry to see you go. I remember working alongside you back at the Wolf3d Haven and have always admired the quality of your work. I hope you find a place where you can express yourself artistically without the obstacles you've found here- though realistically I think that the Wolfenstein 3d community is a microcosm of how you'll find many people act and react to one another in most artistic communities, with many similar personality types and ethical quandaries. While you'll be missed for sure, it's best if you follow the path that brings you peace of mind.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2018 11:26 pm
   Subject: Re: Leaving wolf3d modding
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doomjedi wrote:
I've decided to leave Wolf3D modding and community
No you're not.
You're not allowed to leave.
Dismissed, soldier.
Smile

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2018 2:26 pm
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Maybe I donít know what im talking about, especially since I have no idea whatís happening here, but Iíd say release what you want to and [Censored] anyone who says otherwise? I mean I wouldnít let anyone tell me what to do lmao.
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2018 5:45 pm
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AstroCreep wrote:
Maybe I donít know what im talking about, especially since I have no idea whatís happening here, but Iíd say release what you want to and [Censored] anyone who says otherwise? I mean I wouldnít let anyone tell me what to do lmao.

Luckily, some of us at least have more respect for other people and their work to do that.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2018 8:52 pm
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well I mean what's the deal? uncredited assets or a sore attitude? Like I said, I'm lacking context. I just think it's a bit bs he feels he need to take something down or leave entirely because of something someone who truly doesnt matter in the grand scheme of things says.
doomjedi
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2018 11:14 pm
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I didn't need to take anything down, as legally I could just wish Mr Wolf the best of luck bringing his lawyers to sue me in Israel for some publicly credited (!) pixels or for art sheets uploaded by someone else (!) with wrong credits, 14 years after they were made - and allowed for credited use - and used with credits in bunch of mods way before my mods without any opposition by Mr Wolf being a part of that community at the time it was flooded by those mods.
Those "demands" are empty threats I couldn't care less about in legal terms. I'm not afraid of Mr Wolf, and not of Atina.
I could then sue them back the same way - because of them using commercial Wolf3D sprites as a base for their art and claiming it as theirs. And even bring AReyeP in to claim miscredit of art made based on his Spear Resurrection art bases.
We all float here in the same modding boat, don't "throw grenade inside a tank" - like they say here in Israel.

I did decide to take those mods down to avoid negativity of the community I am in (wolf3d modding community) - and respect community rules regarding art used - currently without permission of even one asset source maker. If one is a member of a community, and wants to keep being a member - he must play by community rules, standards and expectations. At least as much as I understood those in relation to credits and asset makers.
Other solution was to replace the art, and I explained in the other thread why I don't plan to do that.

Quote:
I'm lacking context.

Context is like that (to save you long reading) - I originally used Mr Wolf art/artbase (made 13-14 years ago and used since in bunch of mods) in 2 mods without knowing it's his art.
When a guy told me later he has put art sheets from those mods on Spriters Resource and asked about my credits reference - I carelessly assumed he (as most members of Wolf3D community) knows that very common pre-existing art base (featured in many known Wolf3D mods and one I wasn't aware of their exact original maker at the time) my edits were based of, I was referring only for credits of my edits over those (even not per-art, but generally for art of a mod that indeed had alot of my own art in it), which was wrongly assumed by that guy to be "my" art, and I should have been much more careful about my answer to him (without any intention to miscredit Mr Wolf, but without also considering that Spriter's Resource is not a Wolf3D forum and others might not know it's not my art base). So Mr Wolf got wrongly miscredited on that site as a result, and others might have been using art from that site to sell or misuse it without giving Mr Wolf proper credit (or at least could do so).

Since then Atina pointed out to me that it's Mr Wolf's art, I apologized, added Mr Wolf credits to all related moddb pages (but not to mod readme files not to reupload already released mods) as a quick fix - and since then adding him directly to readme in my next mod/s.

Then in recent DHW thread about people SELLING(!) art assets of Wolf3D spriters without their credits and permission (in general and especially to make profit of their art) - Atina derailed it to talk mainly about the big "credit criminals" - with our mods as her "golden calf" of credits misuse. (Same Atina who recently wrote to me telling I've over-credited/double-credited her in SplitWolf, while publicly claiming days before that about me wanting to be "the only art credit" in mods and enlarge my credits over others).

Mr Wolf got enraged by that discussion - which led to a request to replace/remove 2 of main Batmod enemies (not credits demand at all, direct enemy removal/replacement!), which I couldn't do - so I had to take the mods down, so they can be brought up after things are properly settled with Mr Wolf, which is HARD having not direct channel to Mr Wolf but through Atina's prism.
The fact I need to take down long released mods with credited use - got me very mad and feeling not safe to mod in this community, so I announced my leave. Who wants to produce mods in such conditions, and Atina always on your tail?
Since then I calmed down quite a bit, and tried to solve things with Mr Wolf through Atina. I also demanded her to give me direct way to talk to Mr Wolf to prevent distortions and misunderstading on the related matters.
After she stopped replying (and gave me no direct channel to Mr Wolf) I've made a public post to reply to public comments made by her and others since (out of respect to people caring to write on the subject of my leaving and all)
Atina in her reply made me mad again by showing screens (taken out of timeline context) that were supposed to say I intentionally miscredited Mr Wolf to assign those art to myself out of...me wanting to be the only credited spriter and all. That was direct attack on my character, not on deeds - but on who I am as a person, daring to "mind read" my intentions. Something that was monstrously not true.
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2018 5:03 am
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Petty. A simple mistake that could easily be fixed without being a dick. Sad. Barely any content coming from the wolf scene these days and you guys allow internal drama to impede on progress. Really you guys need to cool your jets anyway. Youíre modifying copyrighted material that was never yours in this first place, and everyone knows once you poke the bear, C&Ds fly. The only reason we are allowed to do this is John Carmackís generosity.
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2018 5:43 am
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AstroCreep wrote:
Really you guys need to cool your jets anyway

Trying to. I'm in a good mood today Smile Just for no reason.

Quote:
Youíre modifying copyrighted material that was never yours in this first place, and everyone knows once you poke the bear, C&Ds fly. The only reason we are allowed to do this is John Carmackís generosity.
My point exactly.
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2018 1:44 pm
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Well a lot of the stuff you are doing is revolutionary in my opinion. Donít call it quits because of a few naysayers. Honestly I wouldnít worry about someone who doesnít even have the balls to message you directly and has to speak through some rabble rouser

I mean shit havenít all of us had resources ripped off of us? Iíve been in the scene since 1998 and Iím sure my resources are in countless mods. I know my skies from Zombies Extreme Epidemic Edition were used in compendium and they left me no credit. I didnít get butthurt and demand the whole mod be taken down. Hell I didnít even bring attention to it BECAUSE IT DOESNT MATTER Iím just glad SOMEBODY actually used my stuff. Means I did something right. Would I like credit? Of course. But Iím not gonna be as petty as some of you are over this whole thing because the point is to enjoy ourselves not infight.
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2018 9:38 pm
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Very similar feeling I have about credits. I make art and mods for it to be played by others and nothing is more flattering then reuse of my art long after it was made. Credits are just nice bonus Iíll never make a big drama about (and didnt make drama when miscredited in the past, even in biggest mod on moddb).

Just to set facts straight - noone directly asked me to remove mods, just replace art. As I couldnt - I had to remove mods out of respecting community standards regarding those issues.


Last edited by doomjedi on Tue Dec 04, 2018 2:52 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2018 1:53 am
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AstroCreep wrote:
Well a lot of the stuff you are doing is revolutionary in my opinion. Donít call it quits because of a few naysayers. Honestly I wouldnít worry about someone who doesnít even have the balls to message you directly and has to speak through some rabble rouser

I mean shit havenít all of us had resources ripped off of us? Iíve been in the scene since 1998 and Iím sure my resources are in countless mods. I know my skies from Zombies Extreme Epidemic Edition were used in compendium and they left me no credit. I didnít get butthurt and demand the whole mod be taken down. Hell I didnít even bring attention to it BECAUSE IT DOESNT MATTER Iím just glad SOMEBODY actually used my stuff. Means I did something right. Would I like credit? Of course. But Iím not gonna be as petty as some of you are over this whole thing because the point is to enjoy ourselves not infight.


I seem to recall some of the weapons used in Gorenstein were used in a handful of mods circa 2001-2002... And the green status bar; have seen that many places since.



Still a fun play!
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2018 3:33 pm
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Yup. And i know I got that laser gun from somewhere. Where I have no clue, kids born that year are now adults lmao
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