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Randomly generating rooms in WDC a good idea?
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Joshua
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PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2019 1:44 pm
   Subject: Randomly generating rooms in WDC a good idea?
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Is it a good idea to randomly generate rooms in WDC as long as you edit them afterward? What is a better approach as a new mapper? Randomly generating using WDC or just copying and pasting old Wolfenstein 3D episode 1 rooms and modifying them extensively so they look different and not an exact copy of the original levels?

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PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2019 5:25 pm
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Neither is a good idea, because at no point should you get into the habit of copying structures from other maps or letting software generate them for you. If you genuinely want to be taken at all seriously as a mapper, you need to have the creativity to make interesting rooms yourself.
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PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2019 5:55 pm
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Joshua,

We've had countless mapsets, mods, TCs and what have you made for SoD/Wolf3D in all its versions - shareware, registered, you name it.

There have been so many over the decades that most people still playing the games will probably not notice if you are using somebody else's maps. Sad, but true...

Please, if you want to release something, try and make something original. As a community, we need that. It matters not if others consider it good or bad - something original is always welcome and will no doubt make make this little family grow.

All the best,

Ariel

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PostPosted: Wed May 29, 2019 3:49 am
   Subject: Re: Randomly generating rooms in WDC a good idea?
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Thing is, if he try to do something original all alone, it's a very low effort on his part, it's a mod with one or few maps only that fills 16x16 part of the entire map, it isn't challenging, filled with mapping mistakes, people won't enjoy playing them. The reason of this is his full laziness or thinking what he do is great as it is whether, it isn't, but if he try to make maps in all seriousness he is too lazy to do that also.

I also remember some people already told you many times that WDC's random map generator is a very low effort and the rooms it creates are as bad as it can be (but I guess you ignored what these people said, once again), make rooms yourself, if you are able, without copy rooms from Wolf3D even if you say you will edit them so no one will notice them, people will, with that effort you manage edit those rooms, people will...
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PostPosted: Wed May 29, 2019 5:35 am
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Yes, please don't use any random generators. Keep making maps and eventually you'll get better at making maps. It's the only way.

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PostPosted: Wed May 29, 2019 6:18 am
   Subject: Re: Randomly generating rooms in WDC a good idea?
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There are no easy shortcuts when it comes to modding. You'll have to put in the work. And if that's not what you want to do, then I'd say: enjoy other people's mods. Smile
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PostPosted: Thu May 30, 2019 6:38 pm
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Start out by reading everything on this page:

http://www.wolfenstein3d.co.uk/levels.htm

and also:

http://diehardwolfers.areyep.com/bunker/bjdesign.htm

I highly recommend Dark_wizzie's "Wolf 3D for Dummies" guide, if you decide to read only one thing it should be that, because it is the most in depth and up to date map design guide for Wolfenstein 3D.

My own advice is to start out by drawing map layouts on paper, and detail out what each area will represent. You want the player to have an enjoyable experience navigating through the map. Offering good object placement for visual effect, guard placements that make sense, and provide enough ammo and health but not too much where there's no challenge at all. Stick with the shareware game if you are overwhelmed by all the different walls and objects to choose from. The shareware is much more restricted and to me, it allows a person who is having trouble learning to map an easier set up due to only being able to use the shareware assets. Once you can make fun shareware maps, then I'd say you would have the foundation down to start messing with the full versions assets.

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PostPosted: Thu May 30, 2019 8:20 pm
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He's been linked to those many times. He just doesn't.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 01, 2019 6:05 am
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Well, let's invite him to prove you wrong. Smile
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 01, 2019 8:29 am
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Tricob wrote:
Well, let's invite him to prove you wrong. Smile

Pretty sure the universe will have ceased to exist by then.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 01, 2019 8:38 am
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Actually, I have an idea. As I am aware, Joshua has a server on Discord. Maybe you, Tricob can get on said server and answer his many questions regarding modding. If you're right, you'll have proven us wrong. If you' re not, then at least you can answer his questions and greatly help him on his modding path. It's a win- win situation, yes?

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 01, 2019 7:05 pm
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I understand a random level generator will not work by itself. Neither will reusing old levels by itself. Modifying old levels themselves is not plagiarism as long as you credit Id Software for the original Wolfenstein 3D episode 1 levels. Haven't mappers done this before? Haven't they modified original Wolfenstein 3D levels before and released them? I remember that some of the WolfBel sets resimbled some of the original maps. This is not plagiarism. Brian Lowe created WolfBel. He does not plagiarize. If a level had an area from episode 1 of Wolfenstein 3D that was edited extensively, would this still be plagiarism? If it looks new and not like the original level, this is not considered plagiarism in my opinion. For example, if a mapper took a room from episode 1 level 1 and modified it extensively, gave it new textures and even added new doors to it and new objects in it, isn't this technically a new room and not an exact replica of an old level? To me, I don't consider it part of an original level at all since new stuff that was not in the original product has been added to it to make it unique.

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Last edited by Joshua on Sat Jun 01, 2019 7:34 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 01, 2019 7:06 pm
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edited topic

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 01, 2019 11:59 pm
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You will never learn anything by modifying E1M1 yet again.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 02, 2019 2:27 am
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I wouldn't recommend it but you can always get ideas for your maps by looking at other maps
good luck Smile

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 02, 2019 7:59 pm
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serpens wrote:
You will never learn anything by modifying E1M1 yet again.
Indeed, modifying the E1L1 map has been doine so many times, you're guaranteed to turn anyone off if you go and do it. Try a more obscure map like E5L3. It was an entertaining map, but if you wandered around in circles and became lost, it was *much* too easy to kill all the enemies in the map by accident. That exact thing happened to me.
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2019 4:13 am
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Tricob wrote:
serpens wrote:
You will never learn anything by modifying E1M1 yet again.
Indeed, modifying the E1L1 map has been doine so many times, you're guaranteed to turn anyone off if you go and do it. Try a more obscure map like E5L3. It was an entertaining map, but if you wandered around in circles and became lost, it was *much* too easy to kill all the enemies in the map by accident. That exact thing happened to me.


Have you considered my suggestion yet?

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2019 8:57 pm
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ReddimusVonAggrevatii wrote:
Tricob wrote:
serpens wrote:
You will never learn anything by modifying E1M1 yet again.
Indeed, modifying the E1L1 map has been doine so many times, you're guaranteed to turn anyone off if you go and do it. Try a more obscure map like E5L3. It was an entertaining map, but if you wandered around in circles and became lost, it was *much* too easy to kill all the enemies in the map by accident. That exact thing happened to me.


Have you considered my suggestion yet?
Suggestion? I'm not sure which of your posts you're referring to. Confused
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 04, 2019 2:48 am
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Tricob wrote:
ReddimusVonAggrevatii wrote:
Tricob wrote:
serpens wrote:
You will never learn anything by modifying E1M1 yet again.
Indeed, modifying the E1L1 map has been doine so many times, you're guaranteed to turn anyone off if you go and do it. Try a more obscure map like E5L3. It was an entertaining map, but if you wandered around in circles and became lost, it was *much* too easy to kill all the enemies in the map by accident. That exact thing happened to me.


Have you considered my suggestion yet?
Suggestion? I'm not sure which of your posts you're referring to. Confused


This:

ReddimusVonAggrevatii wrote:
Actually, I have an idea. As I am aware, Joshua has a server on Discord. Maybe you, Tricob can get on said server and answer his many questions regarding modding. If you're right, you'll have proven us wrong. If you' re not, then at least you can answer his questions and greatly help him on his modding path. It's a win- win situation, yes?


It's literally one response beneath yours about how you'd prove us wrong.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 04, 2019 5:11 pm
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Re: Discord. It's going to be a while before I'm ready to sign up for another service. I haven't even managed to do one interview for my Tandy Color Computer programs because there are so many distractions on the weekends. Having an office I could go to would help immensely, but there's no money to do that right now.
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2019 11:44 am
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I think that it’s important that I chime in. I’d rather play a map that was made by a person than randomly computer generated. One guy emailed me about his own Spear of Destiny maps that used plagiarized maps and resources, that he was ashamed of it, and wanted it taken down from The Dome. So I took it down. One other guy emailed me about his own 2 sets of 60 levels that are randomly generated in Creator with edited graphics, that he’s ashamed of them, and that he requested that I take them down from The Dome. So I took both of that person’s files down. For arguments sake if you are allowed to create a game with randomly generated maps, then you’ll later be ashamed of them and/or nobody would show interest in playing them. Then they’d play one of the 900 or 1,000 other Wolf mods.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 8:21 pm
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ARRRGG... !

It's really, really NOT hard. - Put in a start position, lay up a few walls, toss in some objects save the file and go into the game and check it out.

An idiot can build a reasonably good level in an hour. - It's a great toy - go play with with it ! - You might just surprise yourself.

Otherwise you're just a whiner who isn't interested in creating anything honestly original and are just looking for attention in the forums.
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