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Dumb questions from a dumber modder
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Thirdkeeper
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 18, 2019 12:58 pm
   Subject: Dumb questions from a dumber modder
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I've been fixing all of the maps covering the first ten levels of Wolfmax.

It's great to be editing again after all these years, and as I've said before, I'm eager
to share these with all the 'Die Hard Wolfers' as these have never seen the light of
day outside of my HD.

While testing my newly edited maps I had a rediculas discovery. (can't put it in any more
accurate terms) - I've only tested these in 'Death Incarnate' mode - that's the mode I've
always played in, so during this last testing I decided to load it up in 'baby' mode just to
make sure that everything was functioning properly. Well I load up a random level and
find myself walking around in a huge and completely UN-populated map! - DUH! -

Am I a complete idiot? - pretty near, if not absolutely.. !8-o

Looks like I have a lot more work to do if I'm to implement all difficulty levels..

Here's my question - for those kind enough to respond - Should I leave 'Baby' mode
UN-populated to give players the opportunity to explore and learn these huge maps
before going into combat mode? - Would that 'spoil' it for anyone??

I worked very long and hard to make plenty of surprises and very unusual effects.
I'm afraid that leaving that mode empty will spoil the excitement and the shock value,
as well as the explorers delight in discovery.. - I'm in a bit of a quandry..

Does anyone play in baby mode???

I guess that until I hear any responses I'll just continue implementing the other modes
so that I can get this ready for release.

Please consider this and reply with your thoughts - I want to do this right for everyone playing.

Thanks !

One more important note - ::


I built Wolfmax using the Spear Of Destiny engine for the added wall graphics.
I customized many of them - some so unique that they were used only once in
the entire 10 maps.

Don't remember precisely how I did this, but I believe this means that you will have to
backup your Wolf3d.exe file, copy your SOD.exe into your Wolf directory and rename it
Wolf3d.exe to run.
I sincerely hope that this isn't a problem for anyone. - When I release these I'll include full
directions for loading.


Last edited by Thirdkeeper on Tue Jun 18, 2019 6:06 pm; edited 1 time in total
serpens
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 18, 2019 1:48 pm
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I'm pretty sure there are people for whom the Can I Play, Daddy mode is the main difficulty level they play Wolfenstein mods on, so it should be treated just like any other difficulty level, i.e. populated with enemies to a reasonable degree and in a balanced way. I'd just change some of the skill 3 and 4 enemies to skill 1 ones, so that the balance of higher difficulty levels remains the same while Can I Play, Daddy players actually have something to fight.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 18, 2019 2:25 pm
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I start my levels opposite from you. I add easy mode actors first to make it the most interesting. By the time I get to death incarnate, I'm just throwing them in to mess with those types of players. But that just suits my own playing style. I like to run into a room with guns blazing. I'm not so much into opening a door - fire a shot - hang back - take out the enemies that walk out. Using the Deaf Guard code will surprise those kind of players (hopefully).

Colonel Bill (Biergut)
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 18, 2019 5:32 pm
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serpens wrote:
I'm pretty sure there are people for whom the Can I Play, Daddy mode is the main difficulty level they play Wolfenstein mods on, so it should be treated just like any other difficulty level, i.e. populated with enemies to a reasonable degree and in a balanced way. I'd just change some of the skill 3 and 4 enemies to skill 1 ones, so that the balance of higher difficulty levels remains the same while Can I Play, Daddy players actually have something to fight.


Ah-Ha ! That's a great idea - I don't necessarily have to ADD more skill 1 guards - I can just change a few from 4 to 1.

Thanks VERY much. - I just found out this prob today and hadn't had much chance to ruminate on it yet.. Was eager to
get the question out and get some feed back.

SO glad I found this place ! - Thanks to Zombie in the steam Wolf forum - and again to you for this very helpful feed 8)
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 18, 2019 5:54 pm
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Biergut wrote:
I start my levels opposite from you. I add easy mode actors first to make it the most interesting. By the time I get to death incarnate, I'm just throwing them in to mess with those types of players. But that just suits my own playing style. I like to run into a room with guns blazing. I'm not so much into opening a door - fire a shot - hang back - take out the enemies that walk out. Using the Deaf Guard code will surprise those kind of players (hopefully).

Colonel Bill (Biergut)


Ammo often being a precious commodity- rather than waste a shot I always nose in to alert guards and back out again.

- Only used to playing in D I mode - a blind entry is often a guaranteed insta-death.

When I built this thing I had no idea anyone else would ever be playing it except my old buddy who'd challenged me to build
entertaining maps. So I just didn't even think about player difficulty modes. A few years later I posted it with the Spear executable
to (of all places ) the Apogee BBS ! - They tried to kill me over that blunder. 8-P

I think that at the time of the build I prob dismissed using deaf guards as being unrealistic. Heard about guys going deaf from being
too close to the big guns, but I doubt that they'd be assigned guard positions. - Still, I can appreciate the surprise factor.

I'll have to think about that one..

Thanks so much for the feed. - I'm starting to love it here 8 )
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 19, 2019 7:50 am
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Here's my view on "deaf guards". I don't consider them deaf. They are hiding from you. Either because they're chicken or they are waiting to ambush you.
Anyway, it's good to have a few in a large room. Fool the player into thinking its been cleared out of enemies.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 21, 2019 5:18 pm
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Biergut wrote:
Here's my view on "deaf guards". I don't consider them deaf. They are hiding from you. Either because they're chicken or they are waiting to ambush you.
Anyway, it's good to have a few in a large room. Fool the player into thinking its been cleared out of enemies.


Well I've had an awakening of sorts in the last few days while editing these maps for "Wolfmax". - I'm using deaf guards all over my maps now - turns out I already had a bunch set as deaf and they're really an important feature.

I believe that my logical sensibilities over rode my reason when I made that reply. - Undoubtedly a product of too much coffee and too little
sleep. Not an uncommon malady that I suffer from from time to time.

I agree wholeheartedly.

- Many thanks for the feed -
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2019 2:42 pm
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Well, I've been using HWE to edit and spent many hours to accommodate all difficulty levels, correcting movable walls to 2 spaces and making
other refinements to every map.

When I loaded to test the work guards were seeing me through walls. I checked the floor tiles in the editor to make sure nothing had changed
and noticed that the start position and surrounding floor had 'Elevator to secret level' tiles. I wouldn't have used that tile for my start areas, so
I believe that HWE may have misread a tile. I used the original Wolf Edit to build these and I suppose that it's possible that HWE might misread
such an old build. I deleted all of the offending tiles leaving them blank ('nothing'), tested again and still had the same problem.

For a final attempt I've replaced the 'Nothing' floors with a unique tile for each map (no other areas have the same tile) That seemed to fix the
problem until I came to a map which has a large circular building which contains one large room with four small rooms like L-shaped closets at
the four corners, having two doors each which contained guards. I can't approach that structure without alerting the guards inside. - Is it possible
that wall blocks set on the diagonal can have a view leak where they meet at the corners?

I could double the thickness of the diagonals but I'd have to tear apart the entire map to accomplish the same effect.

After discovering this I haven't tested all of my maps yet to see if there are similar or other problems, figuring that if I could just solve this it would
then make sense to move ahead with the project.

I don't want to blame HWE - it could well be ECWolf that has caused the problem.. - but for the last 25 years this has never happened before.

Any suggestions on what course I might take to solve this issue? - Many thanks for ->anything<- you can offer !
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2019 5:10 am
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I have used HWE, all the way long for development of my Golden Parrot mod, and didn't face this issue.
But my own experience is to never leave empty floor codes. Then in secret area, you should have the same floor code than in the parent room (from where you can enter the secret).

You might just have a wrong mapping for your HWE objects so the floor code XYZ was interepreted as a elevator to secret level code.
I think the problem comes from either ECWolf or some modification you did with the exe source code.
No need to double diagonal walls size.
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2019 2:56 pm
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Never touched the executable - I don't know how to do that. I used the Spear exe renamed to Wolf for the extra wall textures,
and I never had the problem until I used HWE.

- Here's another oddity.. before using HWE when I ran my levels using ECWolf in 4K I had the enemies see through walls problem,
but when I ran in lower resolutions there was no problem.

I've been through so many experiments now that I'm not absolutely positive about the following:
After using HWE - even running my original UN-HWE edited levels I have the same problem no matter what the resolution is.. ??
I'll go back and re-test this to make certain..

Is there any chance that the speed of my system or the amount of ram I have could be affecting this? - I'm about at wits end and
ready to release my original maps that require playing in death incarnate mode - to get through the game..

Thanks very much for taking the time to consider these rediculass problems..
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2019 5:32 pm
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Ran a bunch more tests - have determined that HWE doesn't like floor 6E - this has fixed all levels except the one with the round building which
ruins the whole design. Need Key 1 to enter it and it contains Key 2. As soon as I approach guards inside spot me through the walls and open the
locked doors defeating it's whole purpose.

Ran the test in low resolution launching direct from ECWolf - not through steam. As a last resort I'll have to tear apart this map and try a re-build
with double thick walls.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. - If I don't hear anything in 48 hrs I'll go ahead and do the dirty - it's a huge job but I'm determined
to get this thing some much deserved exposure.

Thanks very much to everyone - you've all been quite helpful and generous in your replies - I dearly appreciate it.
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2019 7:53 pm
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AFAIK, the "elevator to secret level" floor code is actually just a normal floor code (except of course that if you're standing on it when you activate an elevator you go to the secret level), so it shouldn't be causing this; it's possible that ECWolf treats it differently than Wolf3D normally does though. Does the issue persist if you replace it with a normal floor code?
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 30, 2019 5:42 pm
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Thanks for the reply - Turns out that when wall blocks only meet at the corners there's a visual leak
where they meet that only the ai can see through. - This, as it turns out has always been a problem,
I'd just never experienced it before running the game with ECWolf.

Had nothing to do with the misread floor tile. - I had to double the wall thickness to fix it.

A very kind Wolf vet took pity on my plight and an interest in seeing this project finished. - Answered
all of my questions about how to create the ai effects in game play and the illusions that I'm trying to
accomplish.

Most maps are fixed now and just have to test and polish - Implementing all difficulty levels so a thorough
test is consuming most of my time.

- Thanks again to all -

Looking forward to posting here 8 )
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 30, 2019 7:19 pm
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Ah, yeah, the "enemy detection through corners" is a pretty common issue; the up-to-date Wolf4SDL has a fix for it IIRC, but it's a fairly recent addition (i.e. like a couple of years old at most).
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 31, 2019 6:11 pm
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AlumiuN wrote:
Ah, yeah, the "enemy detection through corners" is a pretty common issue; the up-to-date Wolf4SDL has a fix for it IIRC, but it's a fairly recent addition (i.e. like a couple of years old at most).
Uh, I posted a "bugfix" for it some years ago, yes ... and then I found out the "fix" had a bug that made the guards far less likely to spot you as a whole. My mistake; I apologize. Sad
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 01, 2019 1:35 am
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Just out of curiosity, because I do not know... is this bug also can appear in Rise of the Triad also?

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 03, 2019 7:00 pm
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I imagine they won't be triggered as long as you're more than a square away from them.
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