DieHard Wolfers

[ZuljinRaynor]

Okay. If you are adding new items, weapons, teleporters, or stuff like that, you need one thing...

A GOOD STORY TO BACK IT UP!

So, lets say this...

You add a God Mode Artifact (or Artefact if you use that English) and you are making a SoD add-on. Do just what Areyep did for Spear Ressurection. Say something like "The Nazi were experimenting with the Spear's magic and accidentally created these object but they cannot use them because of their tainted souls" or "The Spear generates these to those who are good."

So I want stories in your mods that actually back up your new items.

Comments on what you think about this... Please Post.

[Martin]

Yeah, what you're talking about is very, very important, unless you are creating a fantasy or SF game like AstroStein. All of this makes me actually wonder what Raistlin is going to do with his Bullet Time feature - looks like there isn't any good story for it, and having just a bullet time would be kinda wicked - the whole Max Payne is like a movie, plus there are many places where you can make spectacular use from that feature - but it would be kinda hard to make stuff like that in Wolfenstein.

The story you were talking about (the tainted souls thing) would perfectly fit for a feature I've been looking out in a few TC's - an artifact which frees the soul from hero's body and lets him travel through the level with noclip mode etc., but the player can get killed because his body stays inside the artifact. This would bring a new light for a player which is lost in a level, but also requires a special level design. But wouldn't it be cool to have such a feature?

[ZuljinRaynor]

That is a cool idea but you always have to have something to back-up your ideas. For the soul freeing artifact you would have to give a history of how these artifacts exist or in a legend and stuff like that. Sometimes the story doesn't back up any item or weapon that are too high tech for Wolf.

[Reivax44]

Quote:

Okay. If you are adding new items, weapons, teleporters, or stuff like that, you need one thing...

A GOOD STORY TO BACK IT UP!

So, lets say this...

You add a God Mode Artifact (or Artefact if you use that English) and you are making a SoD add-on. Do just what Areyep did for Spear Ressurection.

I agree with you to a point... if your, let's say, artefact is an integral part of your storyline and that artefact features primarily in your main theme for your game, then yes, it should have sufficient information as to it's uses, history, and defects etc. But, if you are adding a sniper gun, for example, and it's features are of just another normal type weapon then, it will suffice just to mention it briefly in your 'Read This.'

Another way of knowing whether your storyline is any good is by letting other people read it before releasing your TC/add on. That way you will have unbiased, free advice on ways to improve your story.

@ Martin...

Quote:

All of this makes me actually wonder what Raistlin is going to do with his Bullet Time feature - looks like there isn't any good story for it, and having just a bullet time would be kinda wicked - the whole Max Payne is like a movie, plus there are many places where you can make spectacular use from that feature - but it would be kinda hard to make stuff like that in Wolfenstein.

Well, I think what Raistlin is trying to do is this: He is attempting to create an Artistic experience. Thus not only will you see Bullet Time but, you will see Raistlin bringing art to gaming, instead of the usual storyline to game, which is the most common formula in creating TC's.
How this art will look, I have no idea. We shall have to wait and see.

[Sockman]

Quote:

All of this makes me actually wonder what Raistlin is going to do with his Bullet Time feature - looks like there isn't any good story for it, and having just a bullet time would be kinda wicked - the whole Max Payne is like a movie, plus there are many places where you can make spectacular use from that feature - but it would be kinda hard to make stuff like that in Wolfenstein.

*me digs up old Max Payne manual*

AHA! There it is.

Remedy's best "guess" (albeit a poor one) as to why Mr. Payne can slow down the web of time:

Quote:

We're not going to explain why Max can shut time in his favor, maybe he enters a state of high concentration, like a fully focused athlete in the "zone," and for him time seems to slow down, with adrenaline pumping through his veins forcing his body into a higher gear.

Okay, enough of that BS. Hmm, into the "zone". *Makes air finger-quotes like Dr. Evil* Probably from too much Gatorade or something

Me: MAX! Take it easy, man! You might imbalance your electrolytes!
Max: The poor bastard was trying to warn me. I didn't care. And then came the cherry blast of flavor.
*Max enlarges to size of skyscraper*
Me: Holy Sh--
Max: WATER SUCKS! GATORADE TASTES BETTER!
Me: Ah crap. Sockdude, Get the tranq gun! We gotta take this MF-er down!

[Hair Machine]

Haha! Gatorade rocks. We don't have any in England (*sniff*), but when I arrived in the West Coast USA last summer, I found this bevarage most appealing. Water to the power of ten! Plus one! Useful when walking in the hot sun.

I could do with some Gatorade now...

[ZuljinRaynor]

bump

About weapons, they also need a story if they were not in WWII or whenever your TC takes place.

[ZuljinRaynor]

Something new and important!

If your game is related storywise to Wolf3d, it should my compatible with the Sod and Wolf3d story. Don't mess time up!

Alos spell Blazkowicz correctly if you use B.J.

[Majik Monkee]

It is a good idea to have a solid story...I'm not entirely sure everyone will get hung up on whether or not every item you have in your game is explained though (let's face it...if someone shot you full of holes, eating all the chicken dinners in the world isn't going to patch you up instantly). While Wolfenstein and it's subsequent mods are often meant to be rooted in realism, most of them don't take themselves too seriously (I don't remember there being an explanation for the 1-Up in the original), and expect the player to suspend a little reality for the sake of enjoying the game.

Back to the story thing, though, I do believe quality of the story matters. Case in point: I played "Revenge of Poopdeck Willie", and the first thing I did before getting into the game was read the "story" in the text file. What story? There's some lines about your "mission", but it doesn't even explain who Poopdeck Willie is, or what the hell he's trying to get revenge for! (I couldn't find him in the history books). The rest of the episodes are the same way...very little build up, and in the end, I felt as though the world would have been just as well off if I hadn't put the smackdown on Willie and his cronies.

Don't get me wrong...I'm not criticising your tips by any stretch...but I do notice a lot of mods that ignore these things still manage to "sell"...usually not for long though...

[Ringman]

ZuljinRaynor wrote:

Something new and important!

If your game is related storywise to Wolf3d, it should my compatible with the Sod and Wolf3d story. Don't mess time up!

Alos spell Blazkowicz correctly if you use B.J.

Hmm. Mess up time? Screw up the continuity? That would be interesting. Now why would anyone want to do a thing like that....

Besides, people still argue about wheter SOD came AFTER Wolf3d or the OTHER WAY AROUND. I was told SOD was a prequel, but SOD resurrection has it set the other way.

[Majik Monkee]

I say it comes before...because when you win, the President says that now they can destroy Hitler. If it came after Wolfenstein, Hitler would be dead already. It could actually come before or after Episodes 4-6 of the original Wolfenstein, but has to come before episode 1-3...is that confusing or what? I never realized that SR said SOD took place after the original Wolfenstein...

[Kuki]

I'd place it between 2nd and 3rd episode of Wolfenstein. In SoD BJ meets mutants (remains of Schabss army?), but in ep1 he doesn't know if the mutant storys are true/how much of them is true. After ep.1 he moves directly to ep2 I think, though dunno if this was said directly somewhere in the game. And in SoD Hitler is still alive, so it's surely before ep3.

[Majik Monkee]

Good point...that mutant thing is an important detail...the only explanation around that is if BJ got partial amnesia after waking up with the spear...but this isn't a soap opera for crying out loud...I'm going with Kuki's time frame...

[ZuljinRaynor]

Actually, the Spear manual was just assuming you played Wolfenstein 3-D. That is the point. Id said that they put a Wolfenstein adventure on it and since it was made after.... they assumed the player played Wolf3d.

[Majik Monkee]

They should never assume...that makes an ass out of u and me...

Seriously, though...why would BJ encounter mutants during SOD if it came before the original Wolfenstein, and yet share nothing about them with his superiors when sent to investigate Schabb's castle? Did he think his superiors were sending him to investigate different hideous death mutants? BJ isn't much of a soldier if he doesn't do a good debriefing after his thousands of missions, and I refuse to believe he'd have failed to be thorough this time.

[Chris]

Majik Monkee wrote:

Seriously, though...why would BJ encounter mutants during SOD if it came before the original Wolfenstein, and yet share nothing about them with his superiors when sent to investigate Schabb's castle?

I remember reading somewhere that Spear of Destiny takes place inbetween Episodes 2 and 3. I forget why they tied together this way, or how they associated SOD to this timeframe, but that's what I remember reading, and it wasn't that long ago. I don't remember any of the details too clearly, though.

I'll try to look up where I found that info sometime, as I'd like to read it again to see how valid their explanation was.

[Majik Monkee]

That one makes the most sense to me...BJ has met the mutants already, but Hitler is still alive and has yet to be defeated, which is is verified at the end of SOD by the President. It would be interesting to see the official info that backs this up, but this is definitely the time frame that suits me the best...

[WSJ]

If Schabbs is using the Spear to aid in the process of raising the dead, that means he hasn't been killed yet... so that would place SOD before episode 2.

Majik Monkee wrote:

Seriously, though...why would BJ encounter mutants during SOD if it came before the original Wolfenstein, and yet share nothing about them with his superiors when sent to investigate Schabb's castle? Did he think his superiors were sending him to investigate different hideous death mutants? BJ isn't much of a soldier if he doesn't do a good debriefing after his thousands of missions, and I refuse to believe he'd have failed to be thorough this time.

Here's a thought... If you remember the end of SOD, it says that BJ doesn't tell his superiors about the Angel of Death, because they wouldn't have believed him... Maybe BJ didn't tell them about the mutants either, for the same reason.

But having SOD come in between ep 2 and ep 3 seems the most likely, because the president says "Now the Allies can finally destroy Hitler," and BJ kills Hitler in ep 3.

Of course, it could just be that Id didn't think it would matter if they put mutants in SOD... I don't think it does.

[IanFranken]

I wrote up an editorial about this years ago, but I never got around to posting it. I ought to see if I can dig that up. This is something I've pondered and argued over for years now. I'm glad I'm not the only one puzzled by it

The best way I can figure it is:

Episodes 4, 5 and 6 = Parts 1, 2 and 3
Episode 1 and 2 = Parts 4 and 5
Spear of Destiny = Part 6
Die Fuhrer Die = Part 7
Spear Resurrection = Part 8 (I know, it's not an official sequel, but it's the closest to it we're gonna get)
Missions 2 & 3 = Part 9
Return To Castle Wolfenstein = God knows where, I'll stick it as part 10.

Heh, I wonder what it'd be like to play all of those in that order... Could be cool

I've gotten to this lineup after reading the textfiles on everything as much as possible (I don't have the original manuals, never did) and reading over your guys' comments. Still, there's a ton of questions here left unanswered, like why are there mutants in SoD ???. Noone I've ever met can answer that one! But SoD coming in between 2 and 3 makes a bit more sense...

-Ian

[Ringman]

Ok, here's my theory for what its worth: BJ first meets Schabb's mutants in Ep2. Now he doesn't know exactly how schabbs is doing this, but later on the U.S. discovers info about the SOD and the Schabb's was using it do it all along. They still had mutants left over before in SOD so they used them against BJ after they realized they were fairly effective in EP2. The Nazis had the spear all along Probably somewhere late in EP1 but, the gov. didn't know about it until after EP2. Just a guess.

[ZuljinRaynor]

Wolfenstein: Spear of Destiny (Spear of Destiny)
Wolfenstein: Operation Ressurection (Return to Castle Wolfenstein)
Wolfenstein: The Nocturnal Missions (Wolfenstein 3D Epsiodes 4-6)
Return to Castle Wolfenstein (Wolfenstein 3D Epsiodes 1-3)
Wolfenstein: Return to the Castle (Wolfenstein 3D Epsiodes 1-3)

More sensefull Wolf Titles.

[ZuljinRaynor]

Uh hum. Sod is before the Regular Missions. Remember....

Quote:

...will be able to destory Hitler. [New Scree] But that is another story.

[Dugtrio17]

Yes, but I'm not sure it applies to the storyline, unless Hans got cloned and BJ has a bad memory.

[Ringman]

Ack, that's cheating! If 1 secret level counts, then they all count. Now I guess I'm supposed to believe that Nazis somehow built a secret laboratory that housed pacman ghosts?!

[WSJ]

I think E6L10 was another detour from logic... it looked like it was intended to be just a combination of different challenges and enemies. There's a Pacman ghost on that level, too.

[ZuljinRaynor]

Or... it is just Id. They don't know how to make stories. They hired someone to do it for them for Doom3.