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The UnTold Mod by Mäx
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 30, 2004 5:27 pm
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I just started playing Untold about an hour ago and it's not bad, I like how you can get money form hostages and ammo, kinda like Blake Stone. The features ar nice ans the weapons are nicely drawn. Is there no guns in this TC? I know there ie 9 weapons am I'm on weapon four it's still a 'knife' type weapon. Some of the textures are nice but I don't like level 2's as you can obviously tell it's tilied because it not seamless. I like the TC so far even being only on level 3.
Nicely done IMO. Geek

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 30, 2004 6:13 pm
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Yes I agree another great effort from Max hopefully we'll see more from him. Its nice to have a Wolf3d author breaking new ground I mean how many authors have created an addon where you play a homicidal maniac not many great job Max hopefully we'll see that Evil Dead addon from him soon that we heard about on the Wolf 3d Dome awhile ago anyway great job oh and ot: great job from Majick and the Skevros-Jones bros on their addons can't wait to see the new one from Wolf and Majick's Operation:Leterschutz or something like that lol
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 30, 2004 7:13 pm
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I'm glad this topic got started. Smile

I'm trying to remember if the author of this mod made the game with the motorcycle in it. Anywho, I do like what I have played so far. Interesting to interact with some of the actors even though I could have used some health or a BFG from the female rather than her outfit. he he he

Some minor things I noticed that may not be problems in reality. On the first map, I couldn't interact with the actors. White screen showed up but the text didn't show. Later on...when I finally got a pistol, sometimes the ammo count wouldn't show up or wouldn't show the correct amount. And the pistol seems to be a bit off kilter. I wasted at least 2-4 bullets each time trying to get the correct aim. I could have used a crosshair.

I liked killing using the hatchet versus the gun. Actually the first four weapons are a kick. I may not even go back to using a gun. Well, I do want more bullets for the shotgun since that is deadly accurate. Where are the bullets for that thing Max?

A tricky thing he did was have guards shoot at you while you are in a room and you look around for an enemy and there aren't any. Windows... grrrrrrrr. Twisted Evil

I'm sure I'll have more to add as I figure out this game. So far it does attract my attention since I like games that have a little more play in them than the normal shoot up the bosses games. The woman's voice cracks me up too. Cheesy Grin

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 30, 2004 7:32 pm
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I know you guys are desperate for good TCs, but...

While this game looks nice, it's only because at least 85% of all the graphics come from other games with talented artists (Ben Blaufarb, AReyeP...). The gun graphic is directly from Tekkoudan, most of the scenary is from Spear Resurrection, a lot of the statics / sprites are from Operation: Panzerschiff... I'm willing to bet with no permission like most games today...

The storyline is apparently stolen from a horror movie, and directly taken from various websites without even an attempt to rewrite the text to at least make it appear to be original. I think I'll scour the net now and look for a great storyline for my next game. Geez, what was B.J. Rowan thinking with writing his own in-depth storylines from scratch ? If only he had known...

Granted, I didn't play this game all the way through, but I can't imagine it being any different. I really wanted to like this one because of all the cool source code mods and because of its strong horror influence... But come on. How hard is it for people today to get original with their games ? It seems only a small handful are "gifted" with this ability anymore...

-Ian
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 30, 2004 8:05 pm
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There was a story to this mod? hmm, didn't read it. I never read stories anyway. They don't add to the game IMO.

I'm sure it is extremely hard for people to think of 100% original ideas for games. Luckily, there are very good games to take from, however frowned upon it is by many. Many of the totally unoriginal mods that get released do have some sort of a hook that attracts the attention of persons such as myself who do not find some of the oldest games to be much fun *cuz they are too damn hard*.
In the Untold, the graphics may be ripped from other games, but many of them I've never seen before and I like them. Why the heck am I defending myself about this game. Good Grief!!!!!!!!!!

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 30, 2004 9:21 pm
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Thinking about it, maybe I was too hard on the game. But geez... I love the older classic games that started it all and I get sick of seeing people rip from them for no reason except laziness. It's not that difficult to come up with new graphics for Wolf3D... At least, not compared to games like Quake or Doom. For you, the graphics are new and the game is fresh. Kind of like, if I never heard the song "Johnny B. Goode" and some band comes out, does a song called "Joey B. Badde" and uses the exact same music and riffs, I might like it because it sounds fresh to me while you might be disgusted over some crap band that can't even write an original song and just ripped off a song you loved! I'm sort of in that boat.

As far as stories not adding to a game, well, personally there are some add-ons I never would've continued to play if not for the storylines (Barry Christian's games come to mind). A good storyline is what stitches the levels together, and without a good one, even a simple one, the game falls apart wether or not you do read the Read This! art, imo. A good storyline just weaves itself into the levels and the design of the game. With this game, I didn't feel that at all and it just felt like I was just on a mission to "Kill Guy! Kill lots of guys! Kill more guys!", which just gets dull.

Don't take my criticisms about the game as an attack on you wolfie, or the other fans of it. I'm glad you, Kyle and doomedwarrior liked the game. I just did not. I suppose someone has to like these games, because obviously a lot of people are playing them. Good for them. I guess I'll just stick to Schabbs 2000 Smile

-Ian
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 31, 2004 7:14 am
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Ian, I guess a separate topic about the oldies vs the ripped games is needed. Wink (That Barry C. game is boring. Guards that all come at you at once? total ugh!!!! )

I'm going to have to play some more of the UnTold to analyze the map design. Each floor was pretty short which could be changed and some of the rooms had too many of the interactive agents, which bless their soon to be dead hearts, set my character up to be sniped from the windows. No, I like that. hmmmmmm. I'll get back to my review later this week. Smile

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 31, 2004 7:23 am
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Hey man, go easy on MäX, he just used the story from the movie because his English is not that good. It would have taken him a serious amount of time to rewrite the plot, and it's not that important anyway.

This game is more like DooM 3, -watch the features not the story- Cheesy Grin
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 31, 2004 8:13 am
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As for ripped stuff, well I prefer unripped over ripped, but sometimes people use new things in new ways. I mean checkout HOS, the graphics are mainly ripped (shame since Majik has exteme potential as an artist.), but it was still good. The same with wolfendoom. I guess what sets these apart though is the new storyline which is probably what would have helped you enjoy this mod more.

I just like to hear your input, because you are honest and not too brutal. This will definitely give max some things to consider for his next mod.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 31, 2004 2:28 pm
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Max has just sent me a new version of 'The Untold Story', which has an updated credits file. He pointed out, quite rightly, that several other mods have been released recently using borrowed graphics and have received no attention at all. Most of them didn't give any credits.

Anyways, I'll get the new version posted soon once I've checked it out (probably tomorrow). It will replace the original one.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 31, 2004 4:31 pm
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wolfie3dfan wrote:

Ian, I guess a separate topic about the oldies vs the ripped games is needed. (That Barry C. game is boring. Guards that all come at you at once? total ugh!!!! )


When it comes to Wolf-TCs, I guess I'm a sadist Smile But in my opinion, a challenge is what makes the game enjoyable. If you can beat the game in one sitting, what's the point ? The Untold Story, to me, was dreadfully boring because I didn't even get shot or injured and the levels required very little strategy beyond "Kill lots of guys".

Mind you, I do hate impossibly unbeatable games even more than easy games (you know, games that require you to use cheats to finish them because there's NO way you're going to get past 50 Hans Grosses in one room). A fine balance is important.

MrWolf wrote:
Hey man, go easy on MäX, he just used the story from the movie because his English is not that good. It would have taken him a serious amount of time to rewrite the plot, and it's not that important anyway.

This game is more like DooM 3, -watch the features not the story-


Believe me, I am going easy on Max because this is only his second TC. Even BJ Rowan made some lackluster levels with The Renovation before he made the masterpieces CITF and Toten.

Regarding the story, yes his English isn't too good, but to me this still does not excuse laziness. English isn't Arielus' mother-tongue and he has some difficulty with it (no offense, Ariel! You're a great guy!), but this didn't stop him from writing his own story for TGE. I'd rather see imperfect English and an original storyline vs. Perfect English ripped off a website with no original thought.

As far as features vs. story... Anyone can toss in great code mods. What can you do with those mods to give the player a true gaming experience ? Again, this requires creativity and thought.

Ringman wrote:
As for ripped stuff, well I prefer unripped over ripped, but sometimes people use new things in new ways. I mean checkout HOS, the graphics are mainly ripped (shame since Majik has exteme potential as an artist.), but it was still good. The same with wolfendoom. I guess what sets these apart though is the new storyline which is probably what would have helped you enjoy this mod more.


Yeah, the graphics are the only thing I don't like about HoS. The story is good and original, the level design is top-notch, but the graphics just make me feel like I'm playing Blood. To be honest, I think I would've liked it more if the whole Wolf3D premise was cut out entirely (that is, get rid of BJ). That, or if Majik had designed all new graphics (Yes, I know what I'm asking! This is not easy work, and I don't blame him for going the route he did, but I think it would've made the game more original in appearance). Still, yes, the game is good because of creativity and good storytelling with the levels. Same thing with WolfenDOOM, the only Doom to Wolf conversion I like because, again, AReyeP was original with his storytelling, level design and he used source code mods in a good way to enhance the game, not distract from it.

If Max had put more thought into his use of the source code enhancements, storyline and level design, I probably would have overlooked its shortcomings in the visual department.

Schabbs wrote:
Max has just sent me a new version of 'The Untold Story', which has an updated credits file. He pointed out, quite rightly, that several other mods have been released recently using borrowed graphics and have received no attention at all. Most of them didn't give any credits.


True enough. Still, I find it a bit insulting to see people just take graphics without the author's consent from other games. AReyeP is an extremely nice guy about this matter it seems, but I don't think it's right to take advantage of someone's politeness. God knows, I've had some of my graphics used without permission before, and no I wasn't happy!

Anyway, that's that. I don't mean to dump on Max, but these are the shortcomings in his TC. He can improve, I'm not saying he should stop making games alltogether. If you're reading this, Max, keep trying. If you try hard enough, eventually you will make something good if you put your heart and brain to it. There is potential in everyone to do great things.

-Ian
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 31, 2004 7:09 pm
   Subject: Re: The UnTold Mod by Mäx
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Ack,

I specifically mentioned that I was going way easier on him than I would have. I understand this is his second release, and that even good level designers have to start somewhere. Believe me - I hold my tongue on a lot here.

I am not asking that he build Rome in a day, but that people should see the shortcomings in their games. Afterall, if they do not see their faults now, how will they develop into a better designer ? In order to progress, a person has to see their faults and be willing to accept criticism. Otherwise, you won't grow and learn different things. That's a fact of life.

As far as the source mods, yes they are impressive and very cool looking, but if the game itself is bad, what does it matter ? Will anyone remember this game in two weeks ? Then what's the point ?

Also, a lot of these source mods are nothing new. I am not saying this is a bad thing. I too am not exactly a computer science major and a lot of the things I know about the source code I learned through tutorials and just experimentation. But as far as calling this game "riveting" even on the source code end, no it's not. These tutorials have been around for years, and even his touch ups like interacting with people and using "harmless guards" have been around in various forms over the years. Again, I am not saying it's bad, but just that it's nothing I've never seen before.

Regarding HoS... Actually, about it being a "tribute to Blood", this is news to me. I read the "Read This!" and dug through the README file, but I didn't see this listed anywhere. If I'm a complete idiot and missed this, well I'm sorry, but yes I did read the included text. I still stand by if the whole Wolfenstein premise had been eliminated, I would've personally liked it more, but that's just me. Nonetheless, I do enjoy the game (I'm still playing through it).

-Ian
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 31, 2004 7:25 pm
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But game makers should also get positive feedback so they know what was good in the game. Max, don't listen to the diehard old skool mod players. Design games for people like me. A nontraditional wolfenstein 3d player. And make me a game with just race track type maps and a motorcycle. LOL ....please.... Cheesy Grin

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 31, 2004 11:51 pm
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I will give good feedback only when I find redeeming qualities to a game. Wink

But ehrm... To each his / her own, I guess Neutral I'm sure someone out there is probably highly anticipating the arrival of Davestein 3 as well, otherwise there wouldn't have been Davestein 2...

I'll just stick to Schabbs 2000 Cheesy Grin

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 01, 2004 7:08 am
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Ian is just pretending to be negative lately at my request. I'm sorry, I thought that being more negative than his 'always overly happy' online reputation would make things more normal around here, but it seems that his negative comments are just as unhonestly exaggerated and wannabeish as his positive ones from the past. Sorry, I didn't anticipate this, I didn't even anticipate him to just go negative about everything at point blank in the first place. All I really wanted was for him to be honest, but it doesn't seem to be working at all. Sad

I apologize to everyone for this inconvenience.

- Ian's Mom
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 01, 2004 7:45 am
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Well, its a little too late for that Chris! You big-fat-blew-it! Last I heard, max shot himself from depression because of all Ian's negative comments. Why haven't you left this forum already?!

Just kidding. Cheesy Grin

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 01, 2004 9:37 pm
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Schabbs 2000 is awesome.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 01, 2004 10:03 pm
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Chris wrote:
I apologize to everyone for this inconvenience.

- Ian's Mom


Send him to his room, or take away his toys... that'll teach him not to lie! Cheesy Grin
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 02, 2004 5:51 am
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WSJ wrote:
Chris wrote:
I apologize to everyone for this inconvenience.

- Ian's Mom


Send him to his room, or take away his toys... that'll teach him not to lie! Cheesy Grin


No, make IF play every wolfenstein3d mod made ONLY in the 21st century. And with glee, remove any reference of Schabbs 2000 from his computer. Razz

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 02, 2004 9:52 am
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Ian, in your defense, I knew from the get go that HOS wasn't going to appeal to everyone. If you're not a Blood fan, or simply a fan of that type of horror game, it's a very weird mod. On some level, maybe it would be been more appealing to others if it had just been a sequel to Blood, but I was leery of making a sequel where you suddenly lacked the ability to do have the things you could do in the original Blood engine. Not only that, but I didn't feel Blood necessarily needed a sequel (that goes double for Blood 2: The Chosen).

I know HOS ain't perfect, and that it's a tough sell for a lot of folks who prefer more traditional mods. To be honest, I expected a very limited audience for it when I first conceived and developed it (it was my very first mod, and I started designing it the instant I discovered the Wolf community and it's editing tools). HOS was initially conceived as an oddity more than anything, and I'm happy that lots of folks seem to like it. I've thought often of placing the levels in something of a more traditional Wolfenstein setting, just as I thought of taking the levels from Hundscheisse (which also was also intended for a limited audience) and putting them into something more "realistic". Then I thought, "why bother? Then there are two mods with the exact same level sets."

Anyway, I don't fault you for not findig HOS 100% appealing...I knew a lot of folks wouldn't. As for HOS being a tribute to Blood, I'm not sure that was included in the documentation, rather, I think it was covered in my initial dialogues about the set when I first started discussing and posting about it. That's part of why I included all that commentary about the enemies in HOS vs the original enemies in Blood and that sort of stuff...just to clarify...

Anyway, back to the topic...I haven't played TUS...so I've got nothing to say about it... Confused

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 02, 2004 10:08 am
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Since IF is now grounded...or playing in the fog level of Sensenmann by Mäx...it is probably safe to say that the UnTold topic will go by the wayside. Sad It was fun kidding around though.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 07, 2004 5:02 pm
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Untold Story.... is it best on a movie? Shrug Think



I like it i'm up to Chapter 2 level 5 not joking

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