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Wolfenstein Plus
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 17, 2003 11:24 am
   Subject: Re: Wolfenstein Plus
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There is a trade-off between power and simplicity that must be considered when designing a scripting language. Individuals who don't have programming experience would appreciate a menu but others might prefer the power of a programming language.

As you pointed out, the script I wrote didn't allow the user to change settings like strength, number of frames, health, etc. I guess that stuff would appear at the top of the script in the following form:

::: CODE :::
object guard
{
    health 100
    strength 10
    numframes 8
}
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 24, 2004 9:18 am
   Subject: Re: Wolfenstein Plus
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just replying to chris' post about a password screen. If you mean in wolf, then it's simple...

What i've done in Projekt Vertilgung Phase II, is i used the copy screen thing from apogee from spear and changed it a bit and set it in a menu. Then when you write a password in, it unlocks a menu. Smile also, if you write a wrong password in it will say a little comment or if you write some specific word like "wolfenstein" it will say some thing sarcastic about it Smile

I must also say, well done chris for writing that huge menu up Smile (the one posted "Tue Nov 11, 2003 1:35 am")

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 25, 2004 4:48 pm
   Subject: Wolfenstein Minus 7 divided by 0, carry the reciprical..
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That's an interesting idea jamez. I've always loved those little text things, where if you write a stupid message that has nothing to do with what you're supposed to write, it does something funny. I have some old encrypted zip files that use that kind of idea as a basis; they're so fun to impliment - espeically when you give the user indirect hints as to what they can type next. Those old roleplaying games like Hugo's House of Horrors were great for writing silly messages and/or actions on the screen; haha.

Well, thanks for the comments man. I guess you should thank Brothertank for giving the thread a little push in the right direction, as if it wasn't for his original post; I probably wouldn't have even wanted to discuss my ideas with the public at all. Glad that you think a new editable version of wolf3d with customizable features like that would be fun! Your comment was quite inspiring; makes me want to work on something like this even more. Mr Green
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2004 3:06 pm
   Subject: Re: Wolfenstein Plus
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Hey BrotherTank, you know that list you showed on the first page of this thread? It sounds really cool. Very Happy
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 04, 2004 2:43 am
   Subject: Re: Wolfenstein Plus
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I'd like to reveal some more of my thoughts about the Wolfenstein 3D Plus project (by BrotherTank). I have mixed feelings about all of this stuff. Call me an egotist, but I think something like that shouldn't happen if you guys are going to release the source code of it. Why?

This is going to bring down the quality level of all add-ons around. People who create crappy add-ons will have completed kits to create even more shitty ones, with support of technologies that Ripper, DarkOne and others were working on long hours. Those magical features are going to lose all of their magic, phenomen and originality if everyone will start to use it. More and more time will pass, and ceiling and floor textures, rain, snow, shading will be in every addon, as common as adding new weapon or creating armor. That's very bad - pushing Wolfenstein engines to the limit is very good, but what could happen if this thing will get into hands of a bad person... it's like an atomic bomb or stuff..

You may ask about Boom and stuff. Their sources were released and not many more crappy add-ons came out after that. Hmm.. That's because of higher level of quality at all in Doom community. People seem to work on every detail of their upcoming creation; polish it, and create something they can be really proud of. And, the second, the Boom engine doesn't have so many revolutionary features in it.

So... think over releasing the source. As far as you guys are going to make something like "Wolfenstein Reborn" or something, then it is very OK and cool, I'd love to see it. But release of it's source may be regretted in future by all of us here.

<controversial rant off>

Ah - don't kill me. I posted it here because I didn't want to waste the area in Code Crackers, where BrotherTank posted an image. Mr Green

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 04, 2004 3:39 am
   Subject: Re: Wolfenstein Plus
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Ah, what the hell... I'm going to stick my neck out and back you up on this one Martin. I agree. Also, I would feel pretty gutted myself, as I've spent a long time fighting with C++ to get all of these features in. I'm not a good coder, but i still managed it. With this project, I'm kinda worried that everything I've struggled to achieve will be worth precisely NOTHING. Because now every single person can create a mod which is better with absolutely no effort at all. I get the feeling I'm just being arrogant, here, but even so, something about that sticks in my throat....

*Prepares for onslaught*

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 04, 2004 3:45 am
   Subject: Re: Wolfenstein Plus
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Well......for me, the thing with creating tc's is really just the fun
of the art, so something like this would really help.

I can see what U are saying though martin......it might be like
all those shitty tc's based on spear resurrection.
However, I think that we can really only wait and see.

Maybe though, we could have, for stuff like the Dome award,
it is only available to those who used the kits not..........

Still though, being an artist like I said, and a pretty sucky coder
I might add (I cant even add ARMOUR!!!!!) I do think it'll be
usefull. Lets face it though, most people dont even get
1/2 way into making their shitty tc's so the amount of
refuse out there might not change......

Wink Wink Wink

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 04, 2004 7:48 am
   Subject: Re: Wolfenstein Plus
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Well, people, including me, will always make shitty mods and thats something that can't be avoided, just by releasing the coding for lots of things people that aren't too lazy can just use those codes for their own mods. I mean look at all the mods now with floor and ceiling textures, does that mean they are good, no.

People will pump out shitty mods no matter what you do. Wolf plus will not increase the amount of shitty mods, but it may however, give access to people with good ideas to make a better mod then they could've without it.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 04, 2004 8:41 am
   Subject: Re: Wolfenstein Plus
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Martin wrote:
I'd like to reveal some more of my thoughts about the Wolfenstein 3D Plus project (by BrotherTank). I have mixed feelings about all of this stuff. Call me an egotist, but I think something like that shouldn't happen if you guys are going to release the source code of it.


I never said I was going to release the source code to it. I did say that once it was released, I would then post my 64+ code that I developed for SOD2 and this.

Martin wrote:
Why?

This is going to bring down the quality level of all add-ons around. People who create crappy add-ons will have completed kits to create even more shitty ones, with support of technologies that Ripper, DarkOne and others were working on long hours.


Everyone has access to those routines now. The tutorials are posted everywhere (not just here on the forums). The concept of this release (Wolfenstein Plus as it has become refered to) is so that people who can't code can have access to the same features that we expect now to make a better, more realistic atmosphere. Or are you saying that access to tutorials and source code is lowering the standard at which games are being released?

Martin wrote:
Those magical features are going to lose all of their magic, phenomen and originality if everyone will start to use it. More and more time will pass, and ceiling and floor textures, rain, snow, shading will be in every addon, as common as adding new weapon or creating armor.


But that is the way things are going now anyhow isn't it? People are either getting someone to code the specific features into the game for a specific release or are tackling it themselves (some with success, others without). In this case, everything will be there (working as the original tutorial writer intended)... With this package, it's up to the person making the MOD to decide if they intend to use it or not.

Martin wrote:
That's very bad - pushing Wolfenstein engines to the limit is very good, but what could happen if this thing will get into hands of a bad person... it's like an atomic bomb or stuff..


The quality of the addon is controlled by the person creating the graphics, sounds, maps, storyline... It's been that way since the first editors arrived on the scene to allow people to edit the original game. People have come up with some interesting modifications to the code... Some good, some bad....

Some of the stuff released since then has been nothing but crap... Using the analogy that released code = more crap, one could say that anything released after the original is crap? One could argue that much has gotten into the wrong hands... including the original source itself.

Martin wrote:
You may ask about Boom and stuff. Their sources were released and not many more crappy add-ons came out after that. Hmm.. That's because of higher level of quality at all in Doom community. People seem to work on every detail of their upcoming creation; polish it, and create something they can be really proud of. And, the second, the Boom engine doesn't have so many revolutionary features in it.


But that is holding people up to a higher standard... I truely think that is something that should have been done all along. The ones releasing most of the Mods/TC's have been in their younger years (teens) and from what I can see, are looking for attention. It's get my name out there, rather than worry about the quality. It's now quantity, not quality. But reguardless of engine/source, it's the person who creates the mod that has total control of the finished project.

I could easily sit here and code endless hours for different people, making custom exe's. But I have no true control over the final release. It could be fantastic or it could be a piece of crap.

Martin wrote:


So... think over releasing the source. As far as you guys are going to make something like "Wolfenstein Reborn" or something, then it is very OK and cool, I'd love to see it. But release of it's source may be regretted in future by all of us here.

<controversial rant off>



As I said... I never said that I was releasing the source to it. I said that I would release the 64+ code once I did it. But for what it is worth, the additional code is already out there in the community. It's what people do with that code that makes a difference.

Again, Id made a great game when they created Wolfenstein 3d back in 1992. Since then it's been in the communities hands (source - no source). It's been at their hand as to what has come from it - The code and advances in code features hasn't created shitty mods, people do.

<Personal Rant>

Hold everyone to that higher standard - regardless of code features.
Make them take the time to release quality - not quantity.
Don't blame advances in the code on more crap being released.

Somewhere along the line, people have come to believe that they need to release a Mod to be popular. Tell them it isn't so.

But temper that with the fact that you have to look at the age/ability of the person creating the mapset/modset. A 7 year old could in fact create a mod... Will it be good.. probably not in my/your eyes, but to that 7 year old... it may be the best that they can do.

<Personal Rant Off>

Greg
BrotherTank

Edit: @Chris... feel free to merge this post (and others that relate) as you see fit, with the new thread I started on this subject...
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 06, 2004 6:52 am
   Subject: Re: Wolfenstein Plus
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Martin on the line..

Hey Greg...

Excellent points in discussion..

Yes.. Of course those tutorials were lying around. But they are still unique even to our forums at some ways... before Trench Warfare, EoD and Kreml 3D nobody used outside atmosphere and ceiling - floor textures, excepting the Revival of Memories by Brian and TVP. Sure, they were available to the public, but not many people used it, and that's very surprising - the "boom" for adding the "atmosphere" features, as you call it, has started after the announcements of those three projects I talked about before. It's amazing why the modders didn't see it before, and it really makes me think what sorts of source modifications the coders thought about before.

If the feature gets more and more popular, then it loses it's magic. And it's not a normal thing (inin this case), as you assumed.. those features were lying around for two years and only a few used them.. so why now it must be in all add-ons around? I'm trying to keep those features unique (don't get me wrong; I don't want to keep it only for my project to decrease the chances of potential competitors.. it's not like that) as much as it is possible, because they deserve it. I'm wondering what would be the standpoint of Ripper and DarkOne on this one. Would they like to see their features lose the prestige, and start being just common... or they think about it other way? Ripper? What's it like, for you?

Brothertank; I don't believe there aren't people that can't copy & paste or type the routines from tutorials.. come on, man! It's impossible! Why are you making the life of potential new modders (using the WolfPlus Kit) so sweet? Wolfenstein 3D Plus will make modding flat, without the emotion and pride of making innovations - even if it's all about rewriting the complete stuff into the code and customizing it (in limited ways) for your purposes. I'd feel like I am taking the best moments of someone's "modlife" that he doesn't even know about, and will never know about... because of the "kit".

Sure - you say it's all about the mod creator. Now it is. After releasing of a "complete kit that is a base for creating a mod" it will drastically change. Modders will just 'apply the standard modifications to engine' (which were called Outside Atmosphere, Floor/Ceiling textures..) and continue working. Isn't that ... (no word in mind) .. horrible?
Hey.. don't get me wrong - I don't have personally anything against the "Wolfenstein Plus" as a kit that increases the gameplay, not makes modders life easy, without any problems. Because that will lead to series of add-ons like "quantity not quality" - a modder runs the Wolf Kit, adds some random graphics, packs in new sounds and fastly makes three maps, and poof, next day he has a complete demo of new, impossibly original and cool game. It would be sweet to play Wolfenstein 3D with all of those features (the original version) and with smooth redesigns inside the original maps. Pushing the engine into it's limits, and showing the world how Wolfenstein could look and looks better now. Making a stylish, alternative, better version. Without released source or complete "pack" of features. I'm fully against making a kit for the mod makers, because of points I showed up there in my post...

People.. I don't believe you don't take care of such an important thing.. Every Wolfer should take care of it, as it is all about the future of quality of add-ons.. take one side - I don't care which one - I'd just like to see your opinions about it.. be clear as possible, and we will have a very interesting conversation about very important and, no doubt, controversial thing. Geek

I don't know, Brothertank.. but maybe I'm taking the whole idea bad.. it's about making a complete, working kit of features that will work as a base for add-ons?

Martin

P.S. Sorry for such a long post but that was on my mind for some time, and it's created from merged posts I didn't show here. There are some points to reply to your post, but also some general words about what do I think.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 06, 2004 9:52 am
   Subject: Re: Wolfenstein Plus
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My intentions of releasing tutorials were always to let others make great mods with those features, while I'm not able to do something like that.
Cause what's the point of having really good features and never using them?
They'd be completely useless!
So, making them public and letting EVERYONE use them increases the possibility that REALLY good mods result in it! And as you can see it worked, I guess Wink
Now there are some VERY promising mods on the way and I'm just looking forward to download the released version ;D
And the features I don't release, why do I hold back some? Because I see a very small chance, that we'll release a mod someday which then REALLY has something to show off Mr Green
But I guess until then, everything will have vanished... The sun will have burned the earth and eaten it up...
Anyways... I also think it's not the code which is the problem, it's the modders and perhaps those people which say too much positive things about the lowest crap. I DON'T say we all should throw the uglyiest words at each other and speaking absolutely low about others (as some people always have to...), but we SHOULD make clear, that releasing crap is the wrong way and doesn't make anyone famous!
Another thing would be to put published things in categories as "crap", something like "normal" or "unknown" and "great stuff!", which could perhaps increase the quality as I don't think too many want to see their mod in the crap section.
Of course, these would probably be private decisions but these could perhaps be judged by a small group of experienced wolfers...
But I guess, I shouldn't write too much about that, but I think it's worth some thinking, isn't it?
(btw I just remembered an old computer game journal which signed extreme shitty games with a green banana Mr Green)

Altogether I think Wolfenstein Plus is a great idea.
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 06, 2004 10:04 am
   Subject: Re: Wolfenstein Plus
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Martin wrote:
Hey Greg...

Excellent points in discussion..


Thankyou.... You're points have made this an interesting debate... I'm glad that you liked mine... LOL.. Here's more...

Martin wrote:
Yes.. Of course those tutorials were lying around. But they are still unique even to our forums at some ways... before Trench Warfare, EoD and Kreml 3D nobody used outside atmosphere and ceiling - floor textures, excepting the Revival of Memories by Brian and TVP. Sure, they were available to the public, but not many people used it, and that's very surprising - the "boom" for adding the "atmosphere" features, as you call it, has started after the announcements of those three projects I talked about before. It's amazing why the modders didn't see it before, and it really makes me think what sorts of source modifications the coders thought about before.


I don't think it's that they couldn't see it per say... I believe it more to be that in some cases getting the routines to work and/or getting them to work together was the problem. You have no idea how many people have asked myself (And probably people like MCS, Ripper, Dugtrio, and others) to insert into the code these tutorials.

Martin wrote:
If the feature gets more and more popular, then it loses it's magic. And it's not a normal thing (in this case), as you assumed.. those features were lying around for two years and only a few used them.. so why now it must be in all add-ons around?


I don't know if it looses it's magic.... It would make it so that the first project released using it would loose prestige for having been the first with all these features. But once everyone has seen what the code can actually do, and know that the routines are freely available, wouldn't everyone want to use them? I sure would!

Martin wrote:
I'm trying to keep those features unique (don't get me wrong; I don't want to keep it only for my project to decrease the chances of potential competitors.. it's not like that) as much as it is possible, because they deserve it. I'm wondering what would be the standpoint of Ripper and DarkOne on this one. Would they like to see their features lose the prestige, and start being just common... or they think about it other way? Ripper? What's it like, for you?


I honestly think that if someone used my routines... and they became common place, that I had done something great for the community. It wouldn't be that they loose uniqueness, but rather they gained acceptance... It would be something to be proud of. If it became commonplace, then something that I had done would have influenced many and possibly raised the standards to the games atmosphere.

Martin wrote:
Brothertank; I don't believe there aren't people that can't copy & paste or type the routines from tutorials.. come on, man! It's impossible! Why are you making the life of potential new modders (using the WolfPlus Kit) so sweet?


Because it's the next possible evolution to the whole thing. Look at what's happening now in the community... People are using the "exe's" of previously released Mods that someone took the time to code. They then figure out what the defines are on the map... and create something of their own with it. It's been happening for some time and I don't see it stopping soon... Others like Steve and MCS released a "SOD2 Designers Kit" so that their engine could become a basis for many mods.... so that people weren't always bugging them for the defines to do just that. While a few mods have been released using it, there hasn't been that many (I'm not sure why, as it's a great little engine). Isn't this much easier for someone who can't code, and/or doesn't want to? The true question here is "why hold back those that can't code"?

Martin wrote:
Wolfenstein 3D Plus will make modding flat, without the emotion and pride of making innovations - even if it's all about rewriting the complete stuff into the code and customizing it (in limited ways) for your purposes. I'd feel like I am taking the best moments of someone's "modlife" that he doesn't even know about, and will never know about... because of the "kit".


But from the coders standpoint... It's something that if accepted as the base, becomes something that they can take pride in. They did something that helped many... A line from Star Trek is helpful in this conversation... "Do the needs of the many, outweigh the needs of the few".

Martin wrote:
Sure - you say it's all about the mod creator. Now it is. After releasing of a "complete kit that is a base for creating a mod" it will drastically change. Modders will just 'apply the standard modifications to engine' (which were called Outside Atmosphere, Floor/Ceiling textures..) and continue working. Isn't that ... (no word in mind) .. horrible?


Some of the stuff released may be horrible, but then again it might not. Think of it this way... Id released Wolf3d in 1992... people played it and enjoyed it. But for some, they wanted more... So they devised ways of editing graphics, sounds, maps, and even trainers which changed weapon/health/ammo behaviour. All I am doing with this is bringing the original game engine (which has been used for hundreds of mods/mapsets) to the current point in our life. In doing so, this may become the base that we all use, as the original was to so many of us.

Martin wrote:
Hey.. don't get me wrong - I don't have personally anything against the "Wolfenstein Plus" as a kit that increases the gameplay, not makes modders life easy, without any problems. Because that will lead to series of add-ons like "quantity not quality" - a modder runs the Wolf Kit, adds some random graphics, packs in new sounds and fastly makes three maps, and poof, next day he has a complete demo of new, impossibly original and cool game.


But isn't that what has been happening for years? In my archives, I've got hundred(s) (haven't counted but it seems that way) of mapsets/vswaps that were modified for the original game. Then with Floedit people were able to edit even more aspects of the game... That again changed the way people modded, and I've got a few hundred done that way... Isn't that the same thing? All I see it as is raising the bar of the "base" that people can start their work from.

Martin wrote:
It would be sweet to play Wolfenstein 3D with all of those features (the original version) and with smooth redesigns inside the original maps. Pushing the engine into it's limits, and showing the world how Wolfenstein could look and looks better now. Making a stylish, alternative, better version. Without released source or complete "pack" of features.


Sure it would... That is where the whole idea of mine started from.... Wouldn't it be great to see the original Wolf3d with textured ceilings/floors... Have an atmosphere change in not just the walls/sprites used, but the entire game. What would it look like? Would it bring it to a whole new level? Those were the questions I asked myself... And so I started work on it... (The original title of it before the "Wolfenstein Plus" was tagged to it by this thread was: "Wolfenstein Reborn").

Martin wrote:
I'm fully against making a kit for the mod makers, because of points I showed up there in my post...


I accept that as your choice, and respect it even... but I am left with the points I am trying to make (and hope that I have) which cause me to see it from the other side. I'm all for the "kit"...

Martin wrote:
People.. I don't believe you don't take care of such an important thing.. Every Wolfer should take care of it, as it is all about the future of quality of add-ons..


Now I think I see where you are comming from... But to me it's still wrong... It's the "quality" issue.... Sure, I only play what "I" consider quality, but as I said in the previous post, that is my own personal judgement/perception. This project is all about giving people the ability to achieve quality... Not demanding quality.

Think about this... You (personally) could add any tutorial out there to your own mod... Does that make your mod quality? You could change the graphics and sounds with your own creations (cartoon or otherwise) ... Does that make your mod quality? Nope. You could create the best thing you can achieve at your current point in life and still have others deem it poor. It's all about personal perception, and once you release something to the public, you are subject to their's. Just look at the charts... That's a perfect example of public perception.. Smile

Martin wrote:
take one side - I don't care which one - I'd just like to see your opinions about it.. be clear as possible, and we will have a very interesting conversation about very important and, no doubt, controversial thing.


Sure... I was hoping that others would voice opinions, as this is a great topic for discussion.

Martin wrote:
I don't know, Brothertank.. but maybe I'm taking the whole idea bad.. it's about making a complete, working kit of features that will work as a base for add-ons?


I think you might be taking it bad. But that is just my perception.. lol.. I see it as giving the community something to build from as a base... What they do with it is their choice. As I said before, people can make something fantastic with this, or they can make crap... But it will be my own perception of their work that will decide either way... And while I may think it's one way... you may feel it's the other... that's ok... as we can all agree that it's ok to disagree or see things differently.

Martin wrote:
P.S. Sorry for such a long post but that was on my mind for some time, and it's created from merged posts I didn't show here. There are some points to reply to your post, but also some general words about what do I think.


Don't be sorry... if people break down the points and respond to them as we are, all the posts will be large.

Greg
BrotherTank

@Chris.. Not sure if you agree, but I think this section of the thread should be merged with the new thread created on this subject.... ??
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 06, 2004 10:54 am
   Subject: Re: Wolfenstein Plus
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I look forward to this project, myself, and think it's a good idea. I'm trying similar things with Orb (ie: allowing atmosphere, etc to be changed without recompiling the source). The reason for this is that by having the code setup and out-of-the-way, if I go on to make another mod, I can go straight to focusing on maps, sounds, graphics, etc.

That's how I see the Wolf Reborn project: it's a way for people to skip past the code and focus on everything else.

If we see this project as a way for people to start pumping out crappy mods, then let's go backwards a minute. The only way for there to be no crappy mods is if the source was never released and no editors could be made. Now that solves the crappy mod problem, but we've eliminated the great ones as well.

Applying this to Wolf Reborn: when it's released there will probably be some crappy mods built with it, but there will probably be some great ones, too. If you open up the door for good ones, bad ones will sneak in. And as was said earlier: virtually anyone can copy/paste the tutorials into the code and get it to run, so crappy mods can be made without Wolf Reborn... they can be made without source code changes at all.

The key is not what tools you have, but how well you use them.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 08, 2004 8:46 am
   Subject: Re: Wolfenstein Plus
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My suggestion is if people have wolf3d and spear of destiny,before the game starts,you can toggle between them...
I also think that it would be cool if you add one more episode to Wolf3d,
containing new enemies ans such.
Just a tought
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 08, 2004 1:03 pm
   Subject: Re: Wolfenstein Plus
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Continued from the "Timer Routine thread in Code Crackers"...



Chris wrote:
Man, Wolfenstein Plus is going to be awesome when it comes out! I love all the stuff you have coded into that nice blue and yellow digital status bar (like the time, for instance). I'm sure there's alot of people who will be using your Designer's Kit as a base to creating their own addons whenver your project is going to be released. Smile


Well, it would be nice. I'd like to see many people use it as a base, but only time will tell..

The feature list is growing... I'll post that soon... my next message in the thread....

As for the Picture... well, it's showing that I have working Shading with Ripper's outside atmosphere (stary sky - I could have it rain/snow as well but I didn't turn it on for that pic). There is so much available in this thing and so many changes that people should be shocked/interested in playing it over and over... as well as using it as a basis for mods...

Time will tell... And hopefully I can finish this soon... Smile

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 08, 2004 1:46 pm
   Subject: Re: Wolfenstein Plus
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Very cool screenshot, I like the status bar, good luck with finishing your project BrotherTank. Smile
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 08, 2004 2:45 pm
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Shocked HOLD IT, BrotherTank! I throught you been working on EOD project, Or you willing to work both projects at same time? Timer is sound good idea to keep track of time while he/she playing this game. BT makes me very Confused Confused I been keep tracking on your projects on website.. So Good luck with another project Laughing
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 08, 2004 3:08 pm
   Subject: Re: Wolfenstein Plus
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<Howling Wolf> wrote:
Shocked HOLD IT, BrotherTank! I throught you been working on EOD project, Or you willing to work both projects at same time? Timer is sound good idea to keep track of time while he/she playing this game. BT makes me very Confused Confused I been keep tracking on your projects on website.. So Good luck with another project Laughing


They are two seperate things, done by different people...

EoD... that is MCS and Areyep... I am going to Beta it when it is ready... and I have been giving code snippets/ideas to aid them in the project. But EoD truely is theirs... The Areyep website is theirs as well.

My project is "Wolfenstein Reborn" or Wolfestein Plus as this thread has dubbed it. I am programming mine when I'm not doing things around here, things in the real world, helping with things MCS has asked me to work on.... So... it keeps me busy... but mine is close to completion... very close... Feature list below...

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 08, 2004 3:09 pm
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BrotherTank wrote:
"My project is "Wolfenstein Reborn" or Wolfestein Plus as this thread has dubbed it."


Wolfenstein Reborn? Didn't somebody already take that?... Who was that guy... oh yeah! Zach Higgins, I believe.

So what are you going to call it anyways?


Last edited by Zach on Sun Feb 08, 2004 3:16 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 08, 2004 3:13 pm
   Subject: Re: Wolfenstein Plus
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Zach Attack wrote:
<Howling Wolf> wrote:
Shocked HOLD IT, BrotherTank! I throught you been working on EOD project, Or you willing to work both projects at same time?


ARGH!!! Exclamation
How many times do you need to be told that BrotherTank is NOT part of the End of Destiny production team?!?!? It's just MCS and AReyeP. Brothertank beta tested Spear Ressurection and moderates this forum but he has NO active role in developing EoD. Laughing Laughing Laughing


Actually, I do help MCS with coding ideas and code snippets... but that is between two coders... and yes some of my stuff is in both SOD2 and EoD. But the bulk of everything is done by MCS... Even the stuff I write, he converts to his own code (sometimes making it smaller - more efficient). He deserves the credit... and is the master of those code sources..

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 08, 2004 3:23 pm
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Here are some of the features in my source.. (Wolfenstein Plus as it's been labled) Wolfenstein Revisited (It's new name seeing as others would like the other names):

Weapons:
    Knife
    Pistol
    Shotgun
    Machinegun
    Chaingun

    -These now vary the damage done to an enemy with each weapon used and are based on the routines I have posted in the code crackers section of the forum.
    -You must pick up a weapon to be able to use it. No more of the pick up a Chaingun and get all the other weapons.
    - Each weapon uses it's own seperate ammo

    Other ideas for this (not included yet) a silencer that has limited use (have to find room on the status bar for this) and can be used on the pistol or the machinegun. I may add yet a projectile type of weapon.. not sure on that either...


Artifacts:
    Backpacks - can carry up to 4 of them, and each one carried will increase the amount of ammo that can be picked/carried by the player.

    Godmode - Puts you in god mode for 30 seconds per pop. Timer on status bar will count down when you are in this mode. With a little change, this can be made into bezerk mode like doom? Not sure if it's really required??

    Breakable Columns - ala MCS
    Exploding Barrels - ala MCS


Atmosphere Changes: Each of these changes can be enabled/disabled (selected) by the mapmaker.
    Random Thunder/Lightning ( for outdoor scenarios ) with sound.
    Ripper's Outside Atmosphere - Stary Sky / Snow/Rain - any combination of...
    Darkone's Ceiling/Floor Textures - 30 different selectable textures - also different selectable textures for warped areas.

    Ripper's Shading - (currently turned on all the time - but I can make it selectable) but the fog portion is currently selectable.
    BrotherTank's Variable Music - along with music change when a boss is active/activated
    BrotherTank's Ambient Sounds in levels - Random noises from far off places.

    You can have a Starry Sky, with/without snow/rain... with thunder and lightning, along with a texture on the floor or any combination you'd like really. If you want just plain original colours on the floor/ceiling, you can do that too...


Other things that can be enabled/disabled by the mapmaker:
    MCS's Boss Reacts to Sound
    MCS's Enemy Picks up Bonus Items
    Darkone's Animated Wall Tiles


Also included in the package:
    BrotherTank's 64+ walls - 26 additional wall tiles that you can use. Also fixes the door location bug in the original iD code.
    BrotherTank's Heartbeat Sound - increases speed as your health deminishes
    BrotherTank's Armour - Using my own routines to make this effective
    MCS's Warp -see floor/ceiling above for more info - Warp East-West or North-South
    MCS's Extra Guard - Green
    MCS's Extra Guard - Blue
    MCS's Extra Guard - Gray
      More guards may follow... depends on the amount of memory left.
      Guards will use random notice sounds as well as dying sounds.

    Dugtrio's Gun Bobbling - Tab - B will enable/disable
    MCS's Ratios - Tab - R will show you current ratios on the level
    Ripper's Directional Sprites - Still having a small problem making this one available to the mapmaker - so that it can be defined on any sprite.
    4 seperate locked doors - each with it's own key and door sides/jams
    3 different regular doors - each with it's own door sides/jams
    Darkone's sprite fix - you can now use sprites that are 64 pixels wide
    BrotherTank's Intermission Text/Readthis - detects files automatically and will display them at the appropriate time.
    BrotherTank's Timer - Displays your time on the level as well as a countdown timer when in godmode.
    BrotherTank's Elevator Fix - allows north/south elevators rather than the usual E/W - also defined "Broken" elevators as well.
    BrotherTank's Secret Levels - mapmaker decides which levels trigger the secret levels and to which level they go to Smile


I'm still working on a different way of tackling the animated sprites. At this time, they are fixed in the position in the vswap.. but I'm hoping to be able to change that so that you use a modifier to enable them in any vswap position. This may also change the way all sprites are enabled... ie Blocking/Not Blocking or blocking with damage.. etc...

Then there are the Turrets - another enemy that is giving me a problem...

There are many other little things... as my mind is still playing with things.... ie stamina and much more... Smile I've probably left things out of this list... but all will be revealed in the end... Might even add Ripper's new routine if he delivers a tutorial before I finish the final exe's.. There will be two versions... 1 - standard 6 episode & 2 - seamleass levels. Maybe wall switches that remove barriers ... who knows.. my mind is still playing... Smile

Anyhow, that's about it so far...

Greg
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 08, 2004 3:25 pm
   Subject: Re: Wolfenstein Plus
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Zach Attack wrote:
BrotherTank wrote:
"My project is "Wolfenstein Reborn" or Wolfestein Plus as this thread has dubbed it."


Wolfenstein Reborn? Didn't somebody already take that?... Who was that guy... oh yeah! Zach Higgins, I believe.

So what are you going to call it anyways?


Tell you what... have both names Zach... lol.. I'll use "Revisited" ... how's that?

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 09, 2004 2:56 am
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Hmm... I think I was taking the whole idea from a "different" angle, and I'm not sure whether it is true or not. I assumed that "Wolfenstein Plus", or "The Reborn", or just the kit, would be used in a very large scale. I assumed that maybe everyone is going to use that kit, but if people are going to hold the line and use the The Reborn very wisely, then it could be, of course, a fantastic thing that can help everyone, no matter at which level of editing he actually is. From the second side.. I'm still not sure about the quality, but the "feeling" inside my mind tells me that there will be more crap made by The Kit than something original.. It tells me that the Kit released add-ons will be very similar.. in gameplay (as the atmosphere features undoubtedly change the style of gameplay, and the style of the modification/TC at all). So.. I think I'm neutral, maybe with little, let's say "alternation" on the "negative" side.

I'm sure that people didn't use the basis prepared by AReyeP and MCS because of that it's not really known to the public. As far as I know, it was never announced on the Dome or in the forums, but I'm sure if it would gain more attention of modders, it would be used. I remember myself asking MCS (or AReyeP, I don't remember) about such a 'basis' from Spear Ressurection.
There's also a prepared kit that people don't know of - and it's fulled with wonderful features, only waiting for attention, usage and modding. I was thinking about porting Kreml 3D to it, but we are in too advanced stage of coding to start everything again, in different environment - it would need thousands of hours of learning the new rules of the code, plus the conversion of the coded features. You probably know what environment I'm talking about. It's all about NewWolf and WolfGL.
While NewWolf is a complete and released kit (it features many cool things - as far as I remember there were skies, something like D3D sprites, transculency - I'm not sure.. and thousands of cool stuff, even the start of multiplayer client and server), the second one was a port, which also could be used as a basis of a cool game using the 3D accelerators and modern graphic cards! Why nobody pays attention to it? I don't know. But it didn't bring the quality up or down, it didn't change the community. It's a shame. Such a powerful tool coded by DarkOne, just left alone.. that source is WAITING for you all.. why people aren't you taking it? Neutral You aren't interested in kits or what? Hmm.. Strange. Very strange, and interesting.

So BrotherTank.. Wolf Reborn isn't the first kit.. but maybe it will gain more attention. I'm forward to see a new, great and powerful Wolfenstein 3D engine, on the level of NewWolf and WolfGL, even higher, which will give us a new experience from old Wolfy. but I'm still not sure about the source - lol.. I don't have a clear standpoint. Mr Green

Martin

P.S. If we are talking about the "smooth modification" for original Wolfenstein, then it would be cool to see WSAD + Mouse (without freelook of course) compilation working.. as far as I remember Wolf isn't using the letters in control configuration.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 09, 2004 3:51 pm
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BrotherTank wrote:
Tell you what... have both names Zach... lol.. I'll use "Revisited" ... how's that?


Ah Gr3g. Come on man... I was just kidding! You can have "Wolfenstein Plus" I wasn't complaining about that. You never heard me complain nor imply any problems with that. It's just... there's an add-on called Wolfenstein Reborn that's already been released. Remember?

So don't delete me this time, or I'll keep posting.......... La dee da. Twisted Evil
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2004 12:34 am
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I personally like the name "Wolfenstein Plus" better than "Wolfenstien Reborn / Revisited". This first one has a nice feel to it for me, as it's simple enough that it seems just like a fun extended version of Wolf3d. Something along the lines of "Wolfenstein Developpers Kit" would sound nice too, and get the point across what the program is about. I'd choose modesty over professionalism in a name though, but that doesn't mean it's any more effective. "Spear: Resurrection" was used before in Nate's "Schabbs Resurrection", and people still talk about AReyeP's game alot... probably not even thinking too much about what the name means to them, or what it could have come from, morely because of the content that is buried behind the name; which will probably be the case here too.

Thanks for the update on your list Greg. Sounds like alot of cool things are featured to keep the player interested (I especially liked some of the "also included" stuff like ingame readme files, 26 extra walls, secret level trigger, etc.). Honestly, I think quite a few people will be disappointed if there isn't a projectile weapon of some sort though (like a rocket launcher). It may not be a strong point to us, but I'm sure that many others would like to have one in their game; and may not want to use your kit unless it has that ability.

Brothertank wrote:
BrotherTank's Variable Music - along with music change when a boss is active/activated

Holy crap! Man, I swear I was thinking about the exact same thing pashionately a few weeks ago while walking to work. This is crazyness! Would certainly be cool, and easy to impliment. Mr Green

Any new numbers for the other #define limits? I've always had trouble trying to stay below 400 static objects when making complex maps, having 500-600 would be nice (as they only take up 8 bytes a piece). Makes me wonder how many slots are available for vgagraph and sound / music related things. I guess it doesn't matter; most people will try to work with what they have, as long as there's a good mix of new features to add to their levels. The progress looks great so far. I don't think I want to interupt you with any more piece of mind - you sound like you have a well-thought idea of how to work this all out, so good luck with the rest of your ideas for the project Greg! Smile
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 24, 2005 5:11 pm
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BrotherTank wrote:
Outside Atmosphere - Ripper - Modified for Thunder & Lightning - BT


Ooooh, can you please show use how to add that?

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PostPosted: Sun May 01, 2005 8:23 am
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Despite loosing interest in Wolfenstein 3d a bit, I must say this "Wolfenstein3d Plus" sounds mildly amazing..

Chris wrote:
Quote:
- Ability to unlock the episode only after another one is beaten


Kinda my idea, but I hope for my sakes that it maybe implented, it'd feel more.. Story connected in my view.

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