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Map of the Month Contest - July 2k7
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Which 3 of the 15 maps did you like best??
1 - Retro Shapes - by Tricob
2%
 2%  [ 1 ]
2 - Invictus - by MegaByte
2%
 2%  [ 1 ]
3 - Cat N' Mouse - by Areyep
27%
 27%  [ 13 ]
4 - Familiar Shape - by CodeTech84
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
5 - Dogs - by RonWolf
12%
 12%  [ 6 ]
6 - EntryWay - by Adam Biser
6%
 6%  [ 3 ]
7 - Sentinel - by Serpens
18%
 18%  [ 9 ]
9 - GateKeeper - by Dean
4%
 4%  [ 2 ]
10 - The Chateau - by RocketBoy
4%
 4%  [ 2 ]
11 - Smoothness - by Arielus
8%
 8%  [ 4 ]
12 - Whoops... - by Adhesive_Boy
2%
 2%  [ 1 ]
13 - Shreds of Pain - by Ack
8%
 8%  [ 4 ]
14 - Redux - by Thomas
4%
 4%  [ 2 ]
15 - The One Domain - by Haasboy (2Votes)
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
8 - Hitler's Revenge - by BrotherTank (Disqualified)
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
Voted : 18
Total Votes : 48

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 6:55 pm
   Subject: Re: Map of the Month Contest - July 2k7
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Tricob wrote:
Adhesive_Boy wrote:
The point of the bosses were to trap you - you're not supposed to kill any of them, you're supposed to run away. If you were supposed to kill any of them I would've given more ammo. I was hoping that people would be able to tell it was a trap and not something they had to do, but I guess I didn't make it obvious enough.

edit: also you have both keys by the time you run into any of the bosses, so I don't know why you thought you needed to kill them for a key.
If you want to get 100% Kills ratio, killing all bosses is a requirement.


Ok, I guess I just don't design my levels with that in mind. 100% ratios is more of a bonus thing for me and I don't usually think about accomidating for that. I like it to be a challenge just to beat the level. Anyway, I'll keep that in mind next time.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 7:03 pm
   Subject: Re: Map of the Month Contest - July 2k7
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serpens wrote:
Tricob, it's great to read such a positive opinion on my level, thanks for that. Just one question to you - in another thread, you told me that if the level you suspect is mine, I'll be suprised how positive your feedback would be. Which one did you think was mine?
That would be "Familiar Shape". With the minor "tribute" to E3L1 and E6L3, I assumed it was yours, since your last submission was reminiscent of E6L1 in places.
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 7:17 pm
   Subject: Re: Map of the Month Contest - July 2k7
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Rocketboy680 wrote:
I'm sorry too, I was under the impression at the time that I made the map that this was supposed to be an expert mappack, as in, the people playing it would be experts at the game, and since I'm definately not an expert and was able to beat it, I decided it was done well enough that it wouldn't be too frustrating, but I guess I should have taken into account that I wasn't the only person who would have been playing Razz .


Who ever said anything about an "expert map pack"??

@All: Please, oh please... don't make this more than it is. It's a bunch of us having fun.. making maps... that's it. Nothing more. It doesn't matter what skill level you play at.. although the map makers should take that into account.. Yes maps should be balanced, but that's almost an understood. But I don't consider this an "Expert" anything other than a bunch of people making maps where each month they map the way they always do or reach for something new from the freezer type of thing.

To be honest... each and every one of these maps could have won... The whole thing revolves around our own personal tastes and how we feel at this moment. Someone under much stress (like myself - but this is not how I personally feel) might find that maps with less traps and frustration is a better vote for them this month.. Next month it could be completely different. We never sat down and said this is how you must judge any map or this is the criteria for making a map.

Anyone is welcome to submit maps to the competition. And I hope that everyone knows that. I would love to see maps from say Schabbs, MCS, Lakota... everyone... It's a participation thing... but it's not manditory. It's do what you like with the map that you like and put it in the pot with the rest of the maps for any 1 month and see how people vote.

Another example would be to say this... Yes, Areyep has won 2 months in a row now... Does that mean he's the best mapper... Nope... It just means for the last two competitions he's made something that most people liked. He didn't get all the votes... But I will say that people like Steve and Ack are very experienced mappers.... But again, anyone can win at any time. All it takes is one map. It's not like you have to make a complete set. And with no specific storyline to follow, it's totally up to you to set and design something that you guess everyone will enjoy. But there are no guarentees... as even the placement within the package could affect how someone votes or feels about any map....

There are so many variables why this map wins this month and not next.. so please... don't make this as some kind of expert thing or set any limitations on the game per say. A level could be as simple as 2 big rooms... - but as long as it's fun to play and the author submits it.. it's all welcome... That's why I keep the names of who made what secret until the very end. We don't want people to vote just because it's this persons map... We want people to play them, enjoy them... and then choose which they liked for whatever reasons for the month...

Hope that makes sense... As I'm no expert and I'd hate to be excluded....

Greg
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 9:28 pm
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I was being kind of immature with complaining about my votes, I think. And I definitely see your point, Greg. If people are having a frustrating month they're going to have low tolerance for something difficult. It's just disheartening to me to put so much work into something and then see that people don't get out of it what I thought they would. If I wasn't pleased with my map, I wouldn't care how many votes I got, but I was pretty pleased with this one. I feel like that map is an "acquired taste" for people but I have no idea why because I didn't make it with that intention.

Anyway, enough complaining, here's my comments on the levels:

1 - Retro Shapes - by Tricob - The layout was a bit goofy, but it was definitely creative and the level was fun. My main complaint is that each section felt pretty tacked on. There was no real flow between the sections and it stayed kind of linear to the point where it detracted a little from the gameplay. In the first locked door area towards the beginning, especially, I felt like there could be more there.

2 - Invictus - by MegaByte - This was almost one of my votes. I haven't played any levels by MegaByte before (as far as I know), but I really enjoyed this. The layout was very Romero-esque (aka episode 3/5), but a bit blander. The start area was great, as was the exit, but the map could've really used some more detail and maybe a bit of a more interesting layout. Otherwise, I really enjoyed it.

3 - Cat N' Mouse - by Areyep - What can I say? I was almost not going to vote for this out of spite after getting mauled for the 100th time, but the map is too good for that. And it really isn't that hard after you know where to go. The best thing, I think, is the sense of reward I felt after completing it.

4 - Familiar Shape - by CodeTech84 - I like the idea of basing it off of e3l8, and the key area with the SS guys was a cool idea, but I really thought this map could be expanded beyond that. The other areas were certainly playable, but kind of unremarkable to me.

5 - Dogs - by RonWolf - I was surprised this one got the amount of votes it did. Not because it isn't quality, but because I thought this would frustrate people and be kind of an "unsung" map. The theme is great, and I loved the SS area right behind the beginning that you could push the secret door over, but I kind of wish there was more to the map than that. I was pretty disappointed when I opened the gold key door and there was just the exit there. As is, I still dug this one immensely...which is why I voted for it!

6 - EntryWay - by Adam Biser - This is a big improvement over Adam's map last month to me, and turned to be a pretty enjoyable trek all around. Still, the layout is a bit reminiscent of e1l2 as someone else mentioned and it's such that I can't really say anything about it. It was a fun level, it just wasn't very distinctive or memorable...which is fine, but that's why I didn't give it a vote.

7 - Sentinel - by Serpens - The final vote of mine. I've found that a lot of the best stuff I've done has come when I had mapper's block, and it looks like the same is true for serpens. It's a nearly perfect level, and a testament to the fact that you can have a pretty simple layout and still make a great map. The way the beginning part unfolds, especially, is great. My one complaint is that the mutant area felt a bit weaker compared to the rest of the map. I won't say it was out of place, exactly, I just wish there were some slightly more interesting things done with the layout there. Still, that's a minor complaint. I really loved this one and am glad it got second place.

9 - GateKeeper - by Dean - Neat idea, and I thought it was executed pretty well too. Not the longest of maps, and the layout isn't amazingly out of the ordinary, but I did enjoy this one a lot. The thing with the guards facing out of the columns in the beginning was interesting, but since it was on a different floor code, it just made them easy to pick off. Otherwise I dug this one, just not quite enough to give it a vote.

10 - The Chateau - by RocketBoy - I like hard, but this was too hard. Not too hard as in impossible, but too hard as in that it didn't give the player enough opportunities to defend himself. If you want to give the player a challenge, you have to assume the role of him and keep it hard while rewarding the smarter and more perceptive player. I don't feel that this map did it, even though I did enjoy parts of it. Everything was at face value, there were no different strategies that made things easier. You just kind of had to get lucky, which I didn't like. Also, the ceiling/floor choices were a bit odd.

11 - Smoothness - by Arielus - I had this one pegged as Ariel's map from the start. Very smooth, visually pleasing decorations and a nice symmetrical layout from Ariel as you would have come to expect. I think the symmetrical-ness worked against it in a few places, though - I honestly felt that the level was too predictable in a few spots like that blue stone area that seemed to be under-guarded and that prevented me from voting for it.

12 - Whoops... - by Adhesive_Boy - I already explained this one to some extent, so I won't say anything more about it right now.

13 - Shreds of Pain - by Ack - This is one of those maps that I feel bad about not voting for, but honestly...there was just too much stuff to consider this month and this one got thrown by the wayside. There are some great areas here, but I don't feel like this is one of ack's best maps...as in, it didn't really stand out and catch my attention compared to some others in the set. It's still a great challenge and a fun map, as always, it just didn't get my attention enough to pull me to vote for it.

14 - Redux - by Thomas - Thomas took the "using too much blue" advice to heart from last month and went crazy with textures this time. This was a fun map, but it was all over the place and kind of disjointed. I would've liked a little more expansion of different areas and a little less craziness, even though it was fun craziness.

15 - The One Domain - by Haasboy - Another that was very, very close to getting my vote. I arbitrarily decided to not vote for this one at the last minute because I felt like some of the areas outside of the main section (which was really great) were a little underdeveloped and under-detailed. There were a few points where I remember expecting a little more of a challenge and being disappointed by what was there. Still, I really did like this one and felt bad about not voting for it.

8 - Hitler's Revenge - by BrotherTank - I pretty much said all I had to say about this one before, I think. Maybe I'll give this one another play through just for kicks so I can have more to say about it.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 10:36 pm
   Subject: Re: Map of the Month Contest - July 2k7
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Adhesive_Boy wrote:
I was being kind of immature with complaining about my votes, I think. And I definitely see your point, Greg. If people are having a frustrating month they're going to have low tolerance for something difficult. It's just disheartening to me to put so much work into something and then see that people don't get out of it what I thought they would. If I wasn't pleased with my map, I wouldn't care how many votes I got, but I was pretty pleased with this one. I feel like that map is an "acquired taste" for people but I have no idea why because I didn't make it with that intention.


Actually Jack... I got a laugh out of your comment... I saw it more as an in your face kind of comment... like.. well if you didn't like it's toughness - wait till you play next months sort of thing. I actually thought you were joking...

But, I agree... we all want recognition.. And I know everyone worked hard on their maps. What I tried to do when playing and voting this month was to only play the maps when I believed I was in a good mood. But I needed to do that because of the week off the meds, and some trouble I'm still having depression wise. I've also been waiting for the surgeon to call and say "here's your surgery date"... and then the stress of knowing that I am going under again... lol... So this month I really got to see from within myself and how different things affected how I liked the maps.

I waited and only started playing the maps when I released the set to everyone (just like last time)... and by the time I got to level 3... I got totally frustrated as I had a major migraine and was just pissed off with life in general... I had to walk away from the game.. and come back another time because I knew that mentally I wouldn't be fair on the maps because of my own personal frustration... I didn't save the game.. I wanted to restart those levels that did that to me from the start when I was feeling better.. Did it work?? I hope so. But I was trying to point those things out in my last post to everyone in general...



What I was trying to point out was to anyone and everyone that there are so many reasons why someone could get lots of votes and others none. Does it mean that they didn't like your map... No.. It just means that they liked 3 others better... For whatever reason...

Maybe we should increase the votes to say pick the 5 best maps that you like??

I ask that because of this thinking.....

Lets say that honestly... everyone that voted for say one map specific this session - while it may or may not have been there first choice, it was one of their three votes. Theoretically, a map could be chosen as the best, but not because it was number 1 on everyones list, but because enough people thought it was in the top three of their choices.

Now I expect everyone that votes will probably give themselves at least 1 of the votes for any map they created, so that leaves 2 votes to go elsewhere... And for people that didn't submit a map, it's the 3 maps they liked best. Then, there are others that only vote for what they think is the best map...

I mean... 18 people voted... and there were a total of 50 votes this month.. If everyone chose 3 then there should have been 54 votes... MCS answered Dean earlier and said that at that time the set was downloaded 38 times... That number says to me that people downloaded, played, but didn't vote...

And if everyone that made a map gave themselves a vote... every map should have had at least 1 vote. But the numbers don't support that. Does that mean that people played the levels and then voted for others because they thought it was better than theirs?? I don't know... Again.. as I said earlier.. You just can't predict things... So while the voting is interesting.. and suspenseful because you have no idea who made what (other than a map that person [ you ] may have submitted)... It's really not a true reflection on saying this map is better..

So how many votes did I get this month... None... But that's ok... I know people played my map and enjoyed it. Some have even gone back and played it again.. I had fun making it. And yes, I tried to make it good enough to say beat Ack and Areyep... It didn't really matter to me if I did.. (ok.. secretly I really wanted to beat them both - my own little hissy fit - lol...)

So I hope no-one truely takes this thing totally that seriously... That is what I was trying to say to Rockeyboy and anyone else that wanted to listen... It's fun.. We get something new each month... something to look forward to playing.. Something we can guess at who made what.. (and how many people had it right this month... lol..).. The guessing alone was interesting to see... lol...

This is no expert thing.... But, I must say that the quality of the maps for both months was fantastic. So let's just have fun... (throw a hissy fit if you must...lol..) I threw mine back when I disqualified myself.. lol.. And Jack.. I laughed at yours..

The real twist... Hopefully CodeTech84 will continue to submit maps even though he didn't get any votes at all this month..... Now if anyone should be kicking the walls.... lol...

Greg
BrotherTank

BTW: We now have 25 maps in 2 months... keep this up and I'd say by the end of the next session or maybe 2... we could have 60+ maps to put it into a game, jumble the levels and have a complete game of nothing but fun. That's something to be proud of considering most projects that try to involve so many people in the community at any one time, usually ends up as vapourware... lol.. But again... the praise is to all of you that submit and play along.. it's all in fun, which is really a big part of the reason why Wolfenstein was such a hit from day 1.

Just my thoughts... BT Tank

PPS: The surgeons office called this morning... October 17th is my surgery date.. So now I loose one stress item and in affect gain the same one but different... lol.. But hopefully that will fix my shoulder..... And then in 12 years... maybe I can have the new knee that I really need... lol...
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 10:44 pm
   Subject: Re: Map of the Month Contest - July 2k7
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Adhesive_Boy wrote:
1 - Retro Shapes - by Tricob - The layout was a bit goofy, but it was definitely creative and the level was fun. My main complaint is that each section felt pretty tacked on. There was no real flow between the sections and it stayed kind of linear to the point where it detracted a little from the gameplay. In the first locked door area towards the beginning, especially, I felt like there could be more there.
You have some excellent points here. It surprised me that you said parts of it were linear, but looking it over ... yes, you're right; some parts of it definitely are. I also agree with you 100% that it doesn't "flow" like most of my creations do; its construction is very, very uneven. I did this on purpose to avoid my overused "Tricob approach", which I'm trying to veer away from. In areas like the two-door, 4x4 room with those four flags, four SSs, and two crowns, I thought it worked well, but there are many, many times in the map where my alternative way of doing things simply backfired.

Don't worry, though; my August map is better. Smile
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 2:19 am
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Tricob - hah, I really am not afraid to experiment. Wink But anyway, I still am suprised at how positive your feedback was.

Adhesive_Boy - well, it appears that my mutant sequences are always weaker than the rest, and I keep including them since I really like it. At least I have changed it in the September level.

It's very interesting to read all the opinions. You keep getting this warm, fuzzy feeling all over yourself when someone praises your map in such way. Smile But reading about other levels is very entertaining too, you can learn something from all those notes. I wait impatiently for more.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 3:07 am
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.....


Last edited by Thomas on Sun May 29, 2011 12:58 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 4:16 am
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And now, here's my thoughts on the July 2007 contest (my apologies if any of the points have already been addressed / replied to):

In general, I noticed a thin vertical "see-through" stripe from time to time floating around in front of me in all the levels, a little to the left of the gun aim point. On the plus side, the infamous "Hitler Bug" (when he gets "stuck" in his second incarnation) didn't seem to occur.

1 - Retro Shapes by Tricob: I liked the whimsical floorplan and confusing "beehive" area.

2 - Invictus by Megabyte: Challenging open area at start - nice sparing use of secrets (esp. the one with the "mutant gallery" opp. the guarded crown) and dramatic blue area at the end.

3 – Cat & Mouse by Areyep: After the June contest, I strongly suspected this was Areyep's (but again, Poet also came to mind). Very inspired and thoughtful mapping, brilliant use of ordinary guards and a nice “mutant area” too. I liked the multi-stage secret area which leaves you vulnerable to gunfire from a range of angles, and the armory behind the spear racks guarded by two SS.

4 – Familiar Shape by Codetech84: Took me a while to find out where the machine gun fire was coming from in the room containing the exit elevator (SS behind suit of armour against blue wall).

5 – Dogs by Ronwolf: Quite challenging at the start in particular. I was puzzled by the chalice which seemed to act as a wall block (in the metal walled secret area).

6 – Entryway by Adam Biser: More dogs keeping the player on her or his toes at the start. Nice colour schemes and nice use of floor codes/ambushes. Good guard placement. It reminded me of Fgkjrujkuejrn's Sector 27 for some reason.....

7 - Sentinel by Serpens: I liked the four rooms arranged around the entrance elevator. I found it difficult to survive the slime-walled mutant area but it was satisfying to get through it! Giftmacher and the Doctor in cahoots was a surprise. It was hard to tell where the fire was coming from in the tortuous columned area which added to the challenge. I wonder why it's called Sentinel.....

8 - Hitler's Revenge by BrotherTank: Got trapped in Hitler's room when an officer opened a door for me - an extra key in there would have been useful. I liked the little centre blocks with guards in them.

9 - Gatekeeper by Dean: I got a heck of a fright when I encountered Hans! It was fun seeking out all the secrets visible behind the columns. What was going on with the keys? Crazy!

10 - The Chateau by Rocketboy: I liked this level a lot. Nice "snow" feel with deceptively simple and elegant room shapes. After many unsuccessful attempts, I eventually got past the three guards with their backs to me at the entry elevator (by firing at an SS with my shoulder against a side wall in the entry area, which allowed me to slip through). It took a lot of knifework to build up sufficient ammo to take Otto on. The whole thing to me was reminiscent (in a good way) of Ariel's The Golden Episodes. I didn't manage to kill Fatface before exiting........it was tricky getting the blue key from behind Fatface without terminating him first. Wandering mutants certainly added to the slight sense of unease I felt when playing this level.

11 - Smoothness by Arielus: Highlight for me here was the treasure troves either side of the gold key pickup area.

12 - Whoops by Adhesive_Boy: A skilfully designed level indeed. A difficult-to-survive open area at the start followed by many original layout ideas. Whoops! is right - ambushes are the name of the game here. The dogs behind the row of locked silver key doors are the last thing you need when you're low on health (and about to confront Mecha-Hitler)! Hans gave me a fright at the exit elevator....

13 - Shreds of Pain by Ack: Quality stuff. A tight, claustrophobic layout which deceptively seems quite open at the same time due to use of diagonally placed wall blocks and columns, with lots of mutants sneaking up on you. Some interesting secret areas.

14 - Redux by Thomas: More mutants and an unusual orange-coloured floor . I liked the secret area accessed through a walk-through wall, and felt a real sense of achievement in getting into the metal-walled treasure room visible past a column earlier on.

15 - The One Domain by Haasboy: Stylishly decorated (and quite difficult) opening hallways. The officer ambush sequence when picking up the gold key was a highlight.

Again, three cheers to BrotherTank for organizing all this! Beer
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 4:30 am
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mbender wrote:
I wonder why it's called Sentinel.....

A map's name is usually the last thing I have on my mind when mapping. So, I finished my level and realized that it has no name at all. Because I didn't want to think about it in last few minutes, like I did in June, I took a long look at the level trying to come up with something. Finally, my gaze stopped at the steel bunker and I assumed that Otto could be Schabbs' guardian, thus I decided to name the level Sentinel.
(but Schabbs is probably a more formidable foe than Otto, so maybe it's the other way around... Smile )

Edit: I realize that this is quite strange way to name a level, but I really almost never think about map names. My June entry was named Abandoned dungeons for no reason whatsoever, for example.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 5:45 am
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.....


Last edited by Thomas on Sun May 29, 2011 12:57 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 5:58 am
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Well, all I can say is thanks to those who gave me their votes - I have a feeling there are some mappers hot on my heels and the pressure will be on for me to try to make it three in a row! It seems we as Wolfers like a challenge without it being ridiculously tough, and the trick is to find that balance. Well, I'll be trying my best to make it three in a row, but I know it's not going to be easy. I'm very happy with how my August entry has come out, but look at the improvement between June and July ... how much better is August going to be?

To those that didn't get so many votes, take heart. EVERY LEVEL this month was a worthy entrant and was great fun to play. There are levels from the original game that are average in comparison.

Unlike in June where I played at the third difficulty level, I decided not to be a wimp this time and played all levels on skill 4 as I wanted to see them at their toughest Smile Plus I couldn't guess who made what - I originally thought Ack did level 10 and it took me a couple of guesses before I guessed correctly. Anyway, here's my write ups on each level - I didn't know who designed what when I wrote this stuff so I've just described things as I see them. Please, if I'm critical of anything, don't take it the wrong way. I copped lots of flak from some people for some of the things I did in EoD, yet I learnt from this kind of thing. It was positive criticism that helped me to improve, and if I criticize at any point it's the same I'm trying to do here. Not that there's much to criticise at all for July's entries! Anyway, enough waffling on, here's my writeups:

Level 1 (Retro Shapes) - Very good level - odd shapes perhaps but the way it was done it worked very well - winding type of level without being mazelike and with some very nicely decorated areas and good challenges offered along the way. Plenty of pushwalls with some good rewards, a number of 1 ups and also plenty of ammo all up throughout the level. Wall textures were put to good use with plenty of variety, with textures changing half way along short passages to good effect. Nice final area with the elevator in the centre of a series of circular type passages, blocked here and there by barrels requiring you to navigate your way through taking on mutants as you go.

Level 2 - A bit more challenging than the first level in that there wasn't as much health on hand at first. Some good design in that U shaped alcoves and passages meant enemies were always likely to be lurking around corners. Not many secret areas, but the few there were offered needed health and ammo (the hidden 1 up was needed badly when I got to it). Nice colour variation throughout - I liked the wooden alcoves in stone wall areas too. Only faults I could pick on were a red passage that led to a dead end with nothing to really offer, and a pushwall that slid over a crown. Other than these nit picky things an enjoyable and often at times challenging level. I preferred level 1 ever so slightly but this doesn't mean this level was poor - far from it. Just my pick of two very good levels.

Level 3 (Cat N Mouse) - My own level so I'll explain my idea behind it. Nearly called it "The Chase" or "Hunter & Hunted" seeing it's theme was for the player to feel like he was being hunted down by Hans in the first part of the level, and in order to beat the level, the role of hunter and hunted had to be reversed. Wanted the player to be aware of Hans seconds after stepping out of the elevator (used the guard opening the locked door near the starting elevator to do this), without Hans being too much of a threat straight away. Designed things so that there's not too direct a path for Hans to reach the player initially, but of course the player does not know this and expects him to come bursting through at any time. Of course as the player moves on through the level Hans can virtually follow him in any direction. Being that a number of guards were on "patrol", they'd open doors and if shots were being fired, would be activated themselves. This resulted in the sound of doors opening and I wanted the player to wonder "is that door behind me, and if so, is it Hans?" If you want to play without Hans being on the loose, just open the elevator door at the start and fire one shot. The guard who opens the locked door allowing Hans to see you will come to you (unless he runs off elsewhere), and after disposing of him and taking on a few other enemies that come from your left, you can continue on without Hans even knowing you're there. Did anyone notice the walk through floor lamp near the exit elevator? My sloppiness sorry for putting a dog up against it!

Level 4 (Familiar Shape) - Quite a large open plan swastika layout at the start, with some nice little side areas leading off from the very ends of the swastika outer ends. Trap where the blue key was that was floor coded same as other rooms behind the doors requiring the blue key saw SS pouring out everywhere at one point. Didn't expect Giftmacher to be in the room he was - overall a simple enough layout but with some nice unexpected traps along the way that kept me on my toes. I'd still give level 1 a vote above the previous levels though, but this does not take away anything from this level at all - it was thoroughly enjoyable and something different and would be a worthy addition to the original game. It's noticable at this point the dramatic improvement in levels from even last month - voting will be tough this time!

Level 5 (Dogs) - It's good to see a level that tries to make dogs a real threat. Wasn't as hard a level as I expected after reading in the forums about it being very tough - I got through first time with only the knife, pistol and machine gun (didn't use the chaingun once). Mind you if you run around blindly in the open you're asking for trouble - with the dogs you have you be careful and wait back in an area where they come to you and you can pick them off one by one (preferably with the knife to conserve ammo). Not much food to start with, but this made it more of a challenge against the dogs. The boss made it exciting, I started against him with 68% health and 82 ammo and only the machine gun, and in the middle of my fight with him a stray dog (I thought I'd got them all!) appeared behind me nipping at my heels! Exciting stuff and when Hans finally fell I felt rewarded. Plenty of places to hide from Hans and take cover so it wasn't so bad at all (so long as you don't lose him in the process). Overall a good level, although the room full of nothing but a heap of SS seemed to be a bit of a minus as I'd like to be rewarded with something special after such a firefight, plus I was worried it may cause the number of sprites on screen at one time to overload as the bodies (and dropped ammo clips) piled up at the door. I must say I was lucky not to discover this room until later in the level as if I'd found it earlier on with little ammo then I'd have been in real trouble!!! The pushwall to the left of the door leading to this room full of SS had me mystified too - it seemed to reveal nothing at all and seemed to me to have no purpose. Also, the grey stone texture used was type 1 all throughout - just an aesthetic thing but still this is something that I noticed while playing. These are all little things but they do detract from an otherwise very good level.

Level 6 (Entryway) - I loved this level. Not overly complex yet with very nice design elements and enough to keep the player on their toes and some nice little pushwalls linking different areas. Other areas visible behind columns that add to curiosity value. Not much health or ammo to start with, and although health especially was an issue in the earlier part of the level, it was certainly nothing to the point it was too hard. I actually got the blue key before the gold key (you need the gold key to open 2 doors leading to the blue key) - the first gold key door I was able to open as guards ran into the room behind it from the adjoining corridor, and I shot one as he came out, jamming the door open. The second gold key door I was able to open thanks to a pushwall that let me access an area where the guards guarding the blue key could see me - they opened the second gold key door and voila! The blue key was mine. It was then I suspected that I would normally need to get the gold key before I got the blue one. Continued on playing - a pushwall loaded with health and ammo and a chaingun made me suspect a boss was nearby - sure enough Hans lay in wait. However I could have finished the level without the gold key given how things panned out. I like it when a level offers me a variety of ways to finish it. Overall I thoroughly enjoyed this level - it gets one of my votes for sure at this point.

Level 7 (Sentinel) - Enjoyed this level too. Some very nice challenges along the way without being cruelly unfair. The starting area was great with the four square rooms in the large central area - guards could be anywhere and you had to be on the ball to avoid having any sneak up on you. The mutant area with the slime walls had good enemy placement - normally I hate mazelike areas with mutants but this was open enough not to be a maze, yet winding enough with little alcoves and offshoots here and there to create a situation where you just didn't know where the next mutant would come from. The pushwalls at the end of this area opened me up to the rooms behind the boss lair, so I entered this from the rear side - I always enjoy it when the player finds an area via pushwalls which you don't know is a secret area or an alternative way to get into a normal area. The area beyond the gold key door with all the columns was very good too - enjoyed playing through here. Some minor faults - the two bosses were easily defeated as they both only shoot projectiles at you and all I did was stand behind a table to defeat each one - my gunshots went through the table and their missiles/syringes just hit the table meaning I defeated the two of them without any trouble. It's a bit of a golden rule I mostly try to stick to not to put impassable objects in areas where projectile firing bosses reside for this reason (I make an exception with the General as he has a chaingun too). Also there was a door in the boss lair that had just a steel wall behind it and nothing else - I realised later this was a pushwall I'd pushed earlier that had jammed against the door. These are minor things indeed for an otherwise excellent level. Tough to decide, but so far my votes are tentatively going to levels 1 and 6 (I'll change these if there's a better level to come) with my third vote still being open.

Level8 (Hitler's Revenge) - With all the interlinked swastika shaped rooms this level had me on the verge of getting totally lost at times! But the individual colours of the areas helped enormously. A little room with a "Diehard Wolfers say Aardwolf" sign made me think "even if I hadn't known this was Greg's level this kind of makes me suspect it is" lol!!! Plenty of challenges along the way with some guards being activated in areas other than I was shooting in, and as such I could never be certain where enemies may come from - I had a couple of them sneak up on me from behind at times. Finally found a large blue prison room and saw food inside - didn't expect Hitler to be in there too! It was only after finding Hitler that I came across a room absolutely stacked with goodies - heaps of health and ammo plus a 1 up. With this I took care of Hitler easily and then it was back to the wood grained swastika room with the gold key doors. Only two errors I found during the level - a walk through wall in a blue walled area and an invisible elevator door at the exit (think this was due to a "deaf guard" floor code). Other than that a very good level that both challenged and at times confused with it's complex layout. It's a pity Greg removed this from the voting as I'm sure it'd have received it's share of the pie.

Level 9 - Now this was a nice smaller level with some nice areas to explore and plenty of pushwalls. It goes to show that big isn't necessarily good, and sometimes, as in the original Wolf, some of the smaller levels were the best. There was a 1 up that I couldn't access after pushing a pushwall, and I wondered at the purpose of this pushwall - could I have pushed it the wrong way? Also some floor coding errors (they may have been intentional) meant I could see some enemies standing oblivious to me - even if this was intentional I'm not keen on this kind of thing as it can cause problems whereby enemies shooting at you can't hurt you, yet you can hurt them. I really think the enemies should have been standing on a deaf guard floor code instead. All up an enjoyable level, but I'm still keeping my votes open.

Level 10 - I'm sorry but I have to be honest - for me this would have to be the unfairest level I've played in a long time. I checked the level in Mapedit after playing it - with only 3 health kits, 5 dinners and 3 dog foods and not a single 1 up, 26 clips of ammo (and a few extras from a machine gun or chaingun) you have to take on a lot of enemies including a number of mutants, 3 bosses and 2 fake (ghost) Hitlers. If each big boss takes say 60 well aimed rounds, and each fake Hitler takes say 20 well aimed shots (you'd have to be accurate - hide behind a table with the Schabbs and Giftmacher bosses and Fake Hitlers to get nice close shots without fear of being hit), that's 220 rounds required. Seeing as 26 clips gives 208 rounds, you have to rely on dropped clips to make it through if you want 100% kills. Given some of the enemies are mutants, you can't use the knife all the time, but you're going to have to use the knife where possible to conserve ammo. Otherwise the only other way through is to kill one boss for the gold key and then forget or avoid the others. And then on top of this there's hardly any items of health for those close up knife fights. Yep, I love a challenge, but this one was a little over the top for me. The design was good, the concept OK, but it needed more health and ammo to give the player a bit more of a sporting chance.

Level 11 (Smoothness) - This was for me one of the best layouts so far. The amount of ammo and health was well balanced along the way, and there were a few nice challenges as I went. But overall just a lovely design - top rate!!! A little too easy (even on the hardest skill level it was a little easy), although kudos to the creator for the design element. I enjoyed this aspect of the level so much it gets a vote from me for this reason. If I had to give three votes at this point, then maps 1, 6 and 11 would be my candidates so far.

Level 12 (Whoops) - This level seemed HUGE!!! The designer made use of every inch of space available for a level it seems. Very tough start with the officers either side - had to sprint through this part and then beat the other three enemies in the next room to proceed further. Three bosses (two in what appeared to be exit lifts) and heaps of doors requiring the blue key meant there was lots to explore. It certainly kept my interest up. Now this to me was what level 10 should have been if a tough challenge was the order of the day. Tough to the point of almost being frustrating but never enough to turn me off - I guess I'd have liked some more ammo but with a little care you could get through on the ammo provided. Of course you don't have to kill the 3 bosses to beat the level, but it's always nice to get 100% kills Smile A good exploration level for those who like a tough challenge in parts with lots of nice little traps along the way. There were errors though which detracted from the level - in one area with first aid kits I stood with Gretyl on the other side of some stone columns - she was firing at me but doing no harm to me at all. A floor coding error obviously and this type of thing can have very undesirable effects, especially when bosses are around.

Level 13 (Shreds of Pain) - Had elements that reminded me of parts of level 7 (slimey walls and mutants). Normally I hate maze like areas with mutants but this was open enough not to be a maze, yet winding enough with little alcoves and offshoots here and there creating a situation where you just didn't know where the next mutant would come from. The mouldy walls and vines, plus the winding rooms with plenty of alcoves and well placed enemies, made this level a challenge in that I had to be on the ball at all times, making especially dangerous. Some nice little deathtraps, especially the secret room requiring the blue key to open a door - shoot the guards in there and there was a horde of enemies pouring out from the area where the gold key doors were further back in the level - kind of made me wonder if finding that secret area was a wise thing, but then I can never ignore a secret! I love it when enemies are on the loose but you just don't know where - it throws an element of uncertainty into the game. I could never tell where I'd be safe on the back track through to the gold key doors - I had to search all little nooks and crannies to check if the coast was clear. Overall a very good level with a good degree of difficulty, and plenty of health and ammo along the way so that you never got into a hopeless situation. The name given to the level was very suitable - it is indeed "shreds of pain!" Smile

Level 14 (Redux) - Another good level with some good challenges along the way - I enjoyed playing it. Good use of colour throughout making it easier to remember where I'd been. Health was always available but ammo was what I had to be careful with at times. Unbelievably I missed the 1 up behind the pushwall near the start the first time around! This no doubt would have given me more ammo as I started out so may have made things easier the first time. Anyway, it seemed near the start that the mutants had gone on a rampage what with the blood spattered walls, dead guards lying around, and only mutants to be found lurking in alcoves. Some good use of dogs in this level too - normally they're just cannon fodder but on occasion here they closed in on me as I was focusing on two or three other enemies. Nice secret area in the steel walled part too - you could see a swastika shaped area from in the secret room but couldn't get to that area until afterwards (or as in my case I found the swastika area first and then the secret area later). One thing struck me as odd near the end - a walk through wall. At first I thought it was a mistake, but then saw there was no other way to access this area, and on checking in Mapedit later on saw the dead guard in the wall so I knew it was deliberate. I think a pushwall in this area would have been better as to me, walk through walls nearly always look like an error.

Level 15 (The One Domain) - There were elements of this level that brought back fond nostalgic memories of playing the original Wolf in parts. I think it was the large open central area - it had some nice decorations (the potplants in the middle, some stone columns, a few lights and wasn't heavily decorated with other things). In short it kept simple in this regard and it was effective. The secret areas behind doors (one area had 6 crowns behind some barrels - I fired a shot in here to see what happened and heard a heap of guards yell out - I wondered if doing that was such a wise thing but then they came looking for me and I picked them off) was very well done imo and made exploring the secret areas interesting. Also a nice little trap when I accessed the blue key room - I killed all the SS, was looking for pushwalls when I heard the door open! I thought I'd cleared the area outside, but a stray SS came in - it was afterwards I realized they must have come from behind the blue key doors. Funny also in that it was one of the few levels where you get the gold key before the blue one. I enjoyed this level a lot, to the point I now have to go back and reassess those I've given votes for as I'm leaning towards giving this one a vote now.

Voting ...
Level 11 definitely gets one of my votes as I enjoyed it's design so much. I really liked the layout of level 6 too ... after playing some more of these levels I've decided levels 6 and 11 definitely get my votes. My third vote - I'm leaning towards levels 1, 2, 7, 13 and 15 ... all these levels were well done and I enjoyed them for various reasons. Hmmm, I lean towards level 1 compared to level 2 for the design element, so I eliminate 2. This leaves 1, 7, 13 and 15. Gee this IS NOT EASY!!! How can you not vote for one when it comes so close to another? OK, the projectile firing bosses in level 7 were too easily beaten due to the tables etc I could stand behind, so I eliminate 7. 1, 13 and 15 remain. After some long scrutinizing, examining things in mapedit, playing bits and pieces again, I've decided to give it to level 15. Why? It was certainly easier than 1 and 13, as there was so much health and ammo around, but there were design elements of level 15 I thoroughly enjoyed due to a nostalgic feel it gave me. Not an easy decision as I feel levels 1 and 13 deserve a vote too. I guess I put a lot of weight on how a level looks, and if I find the look one that appeals to me then I lean towards it.

What can I say? All up, every level was fantastic in it's own right, with only level 10 being too tough in my opinion due to the amount of bosses vs health/ammo. Even this level could have been good with the ammo/health being adjusted upwards a bit. I have to say, to EVERYONE that entered, you've all done well, as despite the number of votes you may or may not have received, voting was so much more difficult than in the June competition due to the high overall standard.

There is one thing I'll mention though so that people can check for the same kind of thing in their August entries. After voting, I discussed with Ack a few things about the comp, and after he mentioned it, I checked the levels in Mapedit again and was surprised to find 11 of the 15 entries had some kind of floor coding errors, from minor things that probably wouldn't effect gameplay, to major ones where bosses can't even harm you. With newer features on the horizon such as teleporters etc, floor coding errors can cause a lot of problems, so this will give us the chance to iron these little things out. I know Mapedit has a very handy "zap" feature that automatically assigns a particular floor code to all areas (including those behind pushwalls) - do WDC, Chaosedit and Floedit have the same kind of thing?

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 7:01 am
   Subject: Re: Map of the Month Contest - July 2k7
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First of all:

@Steve: Congratulations with your 1st place! Your map was the best, again. Smile I voted for it, together with Invictus, by Megabyte.

@All: Actually, I think I should congratulate you all for making these damn good maps! The standard is very, very high, I'm surprised that I got in the top 3 two times in a row. I'm really looking forward to the August maps, but I think everybody does.

I have played all levels, but I don't have the time to write a review. School has started again, so less time for Wolf3d. I'm glad that I've finished my August submission already.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 7:43 am
   Subject: Re: Map of the Month Contest - July 2k7
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BrotherTank wrote:
The real twist... Hopefully CodeTech84 will continue to submit maps even though he didn't get any votes at all this month..... Now if anyone should be kicking the walls.... lol...

Just like last month, but I'm fine with that.

I would be contributing this month too, but there are no definitions for my editor of choice, which is Chaos-Edit. But the list of new added walls and object list were not provided as I asked, I could not compile it myself either.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 9:50 am
   Subject: Re: Map of the Month Contest - July 2k7
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Codetech84 wrote:
BrotherTank wrote:
The real twist... Hopefully CodeTech84 will continue to submit maps even though he didn't get any votes at all this month..... Now if anyone should be kicking the walls.... lol...

Just like last month, but I'm fine with that.

I would be contributing this month too, but there are no definitions for my editor of choice, which is Chaos-Edit. But the list of new added walls and object list were not provided as I asked, I could not compile it myself either.


Actually... I did post saying that in the new package was the mapedit defines and that I had created the WDC and Flo settings... but that I couldn't do the Chaos. I said that either you or Tricob might be able to do that and Tricob responded saying he couldn't... Sorry about that.. We really do need to get on Andy and have him update that software... make it so that it can import and create it's own define files from others.

If you take the time and explain to me what all the different numbers refer to, I will make sure that there is a Chaos-Edit set of defines.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 11:40 am
   Subject: Re: Map of the Month Contest - July 2k7
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Sure. I mean the new objects and walls that were not defined in the original wolfenstein object list. And the numbers I talked about are the wall number (1 for grey wall etc...) for walls and object number for the static object list (like 98 for secret and so on).

Conversion software for the objectlists should not be difficult to make, if one new all the different formats. Well Chaos-Edit I know like my pockets, but WDC and mapedit is something I don't have much experience in. I actually thought about creating once you released the august definitions without the Chaos-Edit in the bunch. This should be possible in php also, but let's not get excited.

I guess I'll look into it again...

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 11:46 am
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AReyeP wrote:
Some minor faults - the two bosses were easily defeated as they both only shoot projectiles at you and all I did was stand behind a table to defeat each one - my gunshots went through the table and their missiles/syringes just hit the table meaning I defeated the two of them without any trouble. It's a bit of a golden rule I mostly try to stick to not to put impassable objects in areas where projectile firing bosses reside for this reason (I make an exception with the General as he has a chaingun too). Also there was a door in the boss lair that had just a steel wall behind it and nothing else - I realised later this was a pushwall I'd pushed earlier that had jammed against the door.

I knew that I would make some kind of stupid error and manage to completely miss it. Will definitely keep this in mind. No more tables and chairs near Schabbs and Giftmacher - let's be cruel and make them stand with no possibility of sitting down comfortably!
About this pushwall - well, I was sure that I moved it one square to the right so that it would end up in the middle of the small room instead of blocking the door. Just another rather stupid mistake on my side... Next time I'll spend more time seeking out such small details.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 5:03 pm
   Subject: Re: Map of the Month Contest - July 2k7
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AReyeP wrote:
Level 9 - Now this was a nice smaller level with some nice areas to explore and plenty of pushwalls. It goes to show that big isn't necessarily good, and sometimes, as in the original Wolf, some of the smaller levels were the best. There was a 1 up that I couldn't access after pushing a pushwall, and I wondered at the purpose of this pushwall - could I have pushed it the wrong way? Also some floor coding errors (they may have been intentional) meant I could see some enemies standing oblivious to me - even if this was intentional I'm not keen on this kind of thing as it can cause problems whereby enemies shooting at you can't hurt you, yet you can hurt them. I really think the enemies should have been standing on a deaf guard floor code instead. All up an enjoyable level, but I'm still keeping my votes open.
It's probably about time I explained my level as a few people have mentioned things about it.

I started off with the idea to have both keys visable as I'd never seen that in a level before, I think it worked well and got people excited and then a little disappointed when they realised that they couldn't get the gold key. I knew this meant that no one could get 100% but I subtituted this by putting in the secret room full of gold keys. I tried to make it feel like the player would say 'I struggled so hard to get a gold key and here's a whole damn room full of them!'
The opening steel panel that you start off facing in the level was actually the locked fake door graphic. This was done so that by searching around the perimiter you found what I intended to come off as a 'side door'. I then decided not to continue the walkway around the entire structure because that's exactly what everyone would have suspected, that's why no matter which way you go you find out that the walkway doesnt circle the building like expected.

The main thing of contention was the floorcodes in the corner room with the tables in it. This was done on PURPOSE. this was supposed to be a bit of a 'sniper' bonus for taking the time to look through the columns, I guess it more made people think that I had made a floor code error than an intentional feature of the game. I've spoken to Steve a bit about floor codes recently and his advice and the guidelines he follows has helped me out immensely and will reflect in my future maps. Thanks Steve Smile

I tried to make this resemble a ground floor entry level to a Castle or stronghold. I think it came off pretty well. Hans was the 'Gatekeeper' as correctly pointed out by some people and was meant to be the guardian to the remainder of the castle. I think it worked quite well as a stand alone level.

There was one section where if you didn't open the secret door from the right side then you lost a 1up as Steve pointed out. I made this on purpose but you actually get to the secret on the right side of it first if you find all the secrets. This was meant as a penalty if you didn't search hard enough the first time. looks like it caught at least 1 person out!

This whole level was actually made in about 3 hours (August has taken me nearly 20 Hours so far!) and is smaller than most of the levels I make. I could have spent more time on it enlarging it but I was really happy with how it played out and thought that it was fine the way it was. I guess I wanted to show that you didn't need to fill an entire map to make a challenging, fun level as well.

Thanks to those that voted for me and especially those that enjoyed playing my level. This is the exact reason why I entered the level in the first place and the main reason why I enjoy being involved in Wolf and the community.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 6:34 pm
   Subject: Re: Map of the Month Contest - July 2k7
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AReyeP wrote:
Level 6 (Entryway) - I loved this level. Not overly complex yet with very nice design elements and enough to keep the player on their toes and some nice little pushwalls linking different areas. Other areas visible behind columns that add to curiosity value. Not much health or ammo to start with, and although health especially was an issue in the earlier part of the level, it was certainly nothing to the point it was too hard. I actually got the blue key before the gold key (you need the gold key to open 2 doors leading to the blue key) - the first gold key door I was able to open as guards ran into the room behind it from the adjoining corridor, and I shot one as he came out, jamming the door open. The second gold key door I was able to open thanks to a pushwall that let me access an area where the guards guarding the blue key could see me - they opened the second gold key door and voila! The blue key was mine. It was then I suspected that I would normally need to get the gold key before I got the blue one. Continued on playing - a pushwall loaded with health and ammo and a chaingun made me suspect a boss was nearby - sure enough Hans lay in wait. However I could have finished the level without the gold key given how things panned out. I like it when a level offers me a variety of ways to finish it. Overall I thoroughly enjoyed this level - it gets one of my votes for sure at this point.

Thanks. Yeah, the multiple ways of finishing the level was intended, though if I had known that the guard would open the locked door so easily, I might have lowered the par time even more. It sounds like you got luckier with that than I did while testing.

Quote:
I know Mapedit has a very handy "zap" feature that automatically assigns a particular floor code to all areas (including those behind pushwalls) - do WDC, Chaosedit and Floedit have the same kind of thing?

WDC does: Map Tools -> Autofloor (FCool. I'm not sure about the others. The only problem is with the map settings being in the wall place, sometimes you want the floor code in a tile to be a 0. Autofloor overwrites this and you have to re-mark your "0" valued settings. Just as a note...

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