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Wolf3d engine that runs other wolf3d based games?
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wolfwhips
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2011 7:02 pm
   Subject: Wolf3d engine that runs other wolf3d based games?
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Why isnt there a wolf3d engine that runs other wolf3d based games like corridor 7 or blake stone? Something like zdoom, which runs heretic and hexen too. It'd be possible, wouldnt it?

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2011 1:30 am
   Subject: Re: Wolf3d engine that runs other wolf3d based games?
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They aren't anywhere as popular (Corr7 and OBC have never had any form of fan-mod made for them) and no source code (reverse engineering is many many many magnitudes harder than using released source code and will probably never be 100% accurate).

That said, I don't think Corr7 is anywhere near as bad as the uninformed on the internet claim.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2011 7:27 pm
   Subject: Re: Wolf3d engine that runs other wolf3d based games?
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IMO, the lack of source code is the main obstacle, rather than popularity. Ken's Labyrinth has been open-source for several years, but not once have I seen a GZ-Doom or Z-Doom update of that game. Yet C7, OBC, Blake Stone, and Nightmare 3D seem to have a much larger fanbase than KL does.

Just to show you where I'm coming from here. Smile
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 09, 2011 12:14 am
   Subject: Re: Wolf3d engine that runs other wolf3d based games?
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I'd say it's at least 50/50. People obviously have less motivation to mod less popular game.
"Witchaven" and "TekWar" source code is available as well - and yet I didn't see a source port or a mod of Witchaven...only mods that used it's art.

http://www.lesbird.com/CAPSTONE/default.htm
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 09, 2011 12:37 pm
   Subject: Re: Wolf3d engine that runs other wolf3d based games?
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doomjedi wrote:
"Witchaven" and "TekWar" source code is available as well - and yet I didn't see a source port or a mod of Witchaven...only mods that used it's art.
As far as Witchaven is concerned, it's purely its hardware demands that worked against it. If you had a DOS-based machine, odds were against you that it would ever run at a playable framerate. If you had Windows 95 or Windows 98, odds are that sound and/or music won't run right. When I tried it with VDM Sound, performance was uneven and difficult to play, and neither the sound nor music functioned correctly. Lastly, to have a playable framerate on DOS Box, you'll need a high-performance PC with a good amount of RAM; no 1 GHz machine with 512 MB of RAM will be adequate. Sad
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 09, 2011 4:10 pm
   Subject: Re: Wolf3d engine that runs other wolf3d based games?
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like the guys said, its because the games wern't as popular. however, i do believe that some of the old ID games (Catacomb Abyss, Dangerous Dave and the haunted mansion) should be ported for windows.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 10, 2011 8:42 am
   Subject: Re: Wolf3d engine that runs other wolf3d based games?
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Tricob wrote:
doomjedi wrote:
"Witchaven" and "TekWar" source code is available as well - and yet I didn't see a source port or a mod of Witchaven...only mods that used it's art.
As far as Witchaven is concerned, it's purely its hardware demands that worked against it. If you had a DOS-based machine, odds were against you that it would ever run at a playable framerate. If you had Windows 95 or Windows 98, odds are that sound and/or music won't run right. When I tried it with VDM Sound, performance was uneven and difficult to play, and neither the sound nor music functioned correctly. Lastly, to have a playable framerate on DOS Box, you'll need a high-performance PC with a good amount of RAM; no 1 GHz machine with 512 MB of RAM will be adequate. Sad

Yes, but if you have it's source - you can make a Windows port, or something that goes over it's DOS limitations..
Why we do have WolfSDL - and not WitchavenSDL?
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 10, 2011 12:37 pm
   Subject: Re: Wolf3d engine that runs other wolf3d based games?
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doomjedi wrote:
Why we do have WolfSDL - and not WitchavenSDL?
Because Wolf3D 16-bit still ran properly on many people's machines if you used DOS Box or VDM Sound. That's not the case with Witchaven. Smile
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 10, 2011 10:28 pm
   Subject: Re: Wolf3d engine that runs other wolf3d based games?
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So you say - people needs original version playable - to "connect" with the game?
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2011 6:33 pm
   Subject: Re: Wolf3d engine that runs other wolf3d based games?
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Well, not to "connect" with the game, as you say, but to see if the Windows port functions like it should. You have to have *some* kind of guide. Smile
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2011 10:25 pm
   Subject: Re: Wolf3d engine that runs other wolf3d based games?
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Well, can't youtube help?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ElJXOhVbEN8

Also, probably some people here have some old comps
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 12, 2011 5:53 pm
   Subject: Re: Wolf3d engine that runs other wolf3d based games?
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In truth, there's no substitute for playing the game yourself. Smile

Your best bet is installing a Windows-based sound card with MPU-401 modulation, which appears to be the user's setup on your link. A Windows 98 operating system should improve performance as well.

To have a DOS-based machine that will actually play Witchaven at a playable framerate, the PC would probably have to be newer than 1995, when Windows sound card drivers started overtaking DOS-based ones. I imagine *many* DOS-based games faced this problem in the latter half of the 1990s. Bat
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 12, 2011 10:32 pm
   Subject: Re: Wolf3d engine that runs other wolf3d based games?
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BTW you've probably noticed youtube has quite alot of long Witchaven videos.

http://youtu.be/-3JQyTTQF8Y
http://youtu.be/uqW2ZVZk7_Y
http://youtu.be/KeztSKh0glY
http://youtu.be/0r3wJuY0c1E
.....
...

I actually can run Witchaven in not a bad framerate over DosBox. You just increate framerate there and it runs ok.

Don't forget you can easily skip levels there just by exchanging names of the separate map files (the game is THAT stupid). So you can test ANY level (not to mention the cheatcodes...which didn't work well for me on DosBox)


Witchaven 1
Get Full Life and All Equipment - wango
Get All Weapons - scooter
Get All Potions - mommy
Invulnerability (shareware version) or Instantly Die (full version) - rsvp

Witchaven2
Invulnerability and All Equipment - marketing
Get All Weapons - weapons
Permanent Weapons - nobreak
Enchant Weapons - enchant
Get 150 Plate Armor - armor
Get Midian Shield - shield
Get Ciraen Shield - shield2
Get All Spells - spells
Get All Potions - potions
Get Hero Helmet - herotime
Get 10000 Experience - experience
Level Warp - level[insert level number here]
All Map and Show Objects - showmap
Show Coordinates - list
Get Skull Effect - scareme
Instantly Die - killme
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 12, 2011 11:00 pm
   Subject: Re: Wolf3d engine that runs other wolf3d based games?
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Looks really sweet, I should try that. one day Mr Green

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 12, 2011 11:22 pm
   Subject: Re: Wolf3d engine that runs other wolf3d based games?
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If you'll decide to make a port of it - I can always help artwise and such Wink
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 13, 2011 7:48 pm
   Subject: Re: Wolf3d engine that runs other wolf3d based games?
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doomjedi wrote:
BTW you've probably noticed youtube has quite alot of long Witchaven videos.

http://youtu.be/-3JQyTTQF8Y
http://youtu.be/uqW2ZVZk7_Y
http://youtu.be/KeztSKh0glY
http://youtu.be/0r3wJuY0c1E
With the exception of Video #3, these all appear to be recorded on high-end PCs.

Quote:
I actually can run Witchaven in not a bad framerate over DosBox. You just increate framerate there and it runs ok.
I suspect your PC is far more powerful than you give it credit for. I've run several Wolf4SDL mods on PCs with a 1 GB of RAM, and the performance on your machine surpasses all of them. Smile
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 13, 2011 10:41 pm
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Quote:
With the exception of Video #3, these all appear to be recorded on high-end PCs.

How do you know those things?....

Quote:
I suspect your PC is far more powerful than you give it credit for. I've run several Wolf4SDL mods on PCs with a 1 GB of RAM, and the performance on your machine surpasses all of them.

I do have a relatively new quad-core 2 GB comp (not that "quad" matters in such things)...but I clearly remember testing Witchaven (much more than once, especially taking part in several vapourware WitchavenTC projects) on my old comp as well. I'm not talking about 30 fps or something...but good enouph for testing of features.
But as I said - weirdly - cheat codes didn't work for me on Dosbox, so I needed to rename map files for level wrapping.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 1:14 am
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Did you remember to press Backspace (this opens up what I assume, having never played Witchaven multiplayer, is the multiplayer chat, which is where cheats in WH need to be entered) first?

However, in Dosbox, the screen garbles (something to do with frame buffer I imagine) while multiplayer chat is open. It un-garbles once you've entered the cheat.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 2:04 am
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Well, I remember trying...but nothing worked.
For levels wrapping there is still the renaming trick.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 8:56 pm
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doomjedi wrote:
But as I said - weirdly - cheat codes didn't work for me on Dosbox, so I needed to rename map files for level wrapping.
Well, I suppose I'll be running Witchaven sooner or later on my PC here; it was part of a large torrent I downloaded. Anyway, I'll probably check out the cheat codes after I adjust to the game; if I get any results, I'll let you know. Smile

Seeing the gameplay videos, the game has some old-fashioned qualities I find very appealing. That's partly nostalgia for me, though; WH sort of brings back memories of this animated film I watched several years back, and I'm still trying to track down the movie's title. So far, all I've found is that it appears to be released between 1990 and 1996, and its use of visuals and atmosphere was replicated in the Apogee game "Mystic Towers".
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 11:40 pm
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One of the cool Witchaven features I like is the ability to take out arrows (and spears?) from walls after you shot them and missed. Really saves your ammo Smile
You can even climb on them Smile
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 11:50 pm
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LOL That's gotta be a real high. Very Happy
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PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2011 1:26 pm
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I can run witchaven 1 with no errors with dosbox on my computer, but in witchaven 2 i cannot remap the keys in game. Is it needed to remap the keyboard with dosbox?

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PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2011 3:27 pm
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wolfwhips wrote:
I can run witchaven 1 with no errors with dosbox on my computer, but in witchaven 2 i cannot remap the keys in game. Is it needed to remap the keyboard with dosbox?
I would expect so, since DOS uses a different keyboard handler than Windows (not to mention a better one, IMO). Add to this, if you use Windows Vista or Windows 7, the way it handles the keyboard will be worse than it is with Windows XP and Windows 95/98. MS changed the way the keys are handled, so fewer keys work at one time. This doesn't affect Wolf4SDL mods or DOS Box because they use the SDL library. SDL - you might recall - is platform-independent, so it use its own keyboard handler, instead of the one Windows provides.
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