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Thomas
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 3:49 am
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Has anybody here ever attempted making a 128 x 128 map? I'd like to hear your views on whether or not it's at all useful, fun to make and fun to play as well. I've seriously considered trying it out, but in the end it's all about finding a good editor that can handle the 128 x 128 grid as well.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 4:04 am
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That editor would be WDC. ^^

I've never tried it, but I imagine it would be quite hard to do. It's basically 4 * 64x64, and at times I already have trouble filling that. I don't think it would work that great for a regular Wolf3d mapset (though I'd welcome the challenge), but for mods with more advanced coding it might just work. Imagine a large city environment or something. Mr Green If it's fun to play, that remains to be seen. I have never played a 128x128 map as far as I know, so I can't tell. I imagine it would be big as hell though and would at least take an hour to properly finish (maybe even more).
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 4:14 am
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I imagine a large castle environment. Now there's finally room to make the big barrier, and the citadel can be much larger and roomier - much more objects can flow better here. But that's about it, really... I can't imagine a regular 10-, 20- 30-level mod with 128 x 128 maps. That would just drag on for too long. (?)

But for 128 x 128 maps you'd need either 8, 12 or 16 keys! Laughing I sense a challenge. But that'd probably drain all other mapping activity for me.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 1:34 pm
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ronwolf1705 wrote:
That editor would be WDC. ^^

HWE supports 128x128 maps as well (up to 256x256 according to the feature list). Smile

I don't think I've ever played one either, although there's a few topics where people talked about them. And there was Gary's "One Last Addon" announcement in 2006, although I think that was more of "merging 4 64x64 maps together" type deal.

I was thinking of making a map editor called Spear128 based on the Tab-O code, but Thomas's criticisms about Spear sort of made me question the idea. Laughing
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 6:53 pm
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I can't recommend anyone even *touch* this idea unless you increase the maximum amount of doors. Increasing the number of floorcodes is advised too, but that's far easier to code in. Smile
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 11:15 pm
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Everything has to be increased. Guards, objects, doors, the whole thing.

Chris, I've got no problem with Spear if you're allowed to tinker around with it. From a personal view, I just think it lacks decoration aspects, such as beds, stoves, utensils, sinks etc... It's all replaced with blood and gibs. While that's OK, I'm just thinking that all Wolf sprites as well as those new to Spear should be mixed together to create the ultimate Wolf gameplay.

And that TAB-O thing surely looks odd! If only I knew what it was about in short. Laughing
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 5:47 am
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I never make 128x128 map. It take me too long to make it and it would be a lot of empty space, COZ sometimes i left some spaces even in 64x64 map.

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Thomas
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 6:10 am
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I'm not assuming we'll use each and every corner of the map. Nobody's ever done that, really - but imagine the possibilities. Much more keys, much more anticipation (of course, that one depends on how well it's been thought through) - not to mention the ridiculously long hallways you can make if that's your aim.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 6:34 am
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You could actually make somewhat more realistic castles. Apart from the amount of work it will take to finish such a map, it will indeed be quite interesting. More mixes of different kinds of areas in one level and such. Smile
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 6:49 am
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It'll take a little more time, no doubt, but I doubt it'll take as much as we expect if we e.g. follow the "castle" idea. It's all about going large. Laughing We ought to integrate cannons into the game, place them at the gates.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 8:21 am
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We could take all the Spear themes and do a level per theme - one big Tunnel level, one big Dungeon.

And I like the cannon idea! Laughing There's more potential in this than I thought. Mr Green
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 9:06 am
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Taking one Spear theme at a time is fine by me. Sounds like a terrific idea, actually. I imagine a huge ramparts map with that delightful turquoise all around the corners, and then a gray brick center as usual. Now that's a map I'd gladly chip in to do!
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 5:57 pm
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Thomas wrote:
Chris, I've got no problem with Spear if you're allowed to tinker around with it. From a personal view, I just think it lacks decoration aspects, such as beds, stoves, utensils, sinks etc... It's all replaced with blood and gibs. While that's OK, I'm just thinking that all Wolf sprites as well as those new to Spear should be mixed together to create the ultimate Wolf gameplay.
I'm with you there. Too Cool
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 10:36 pm
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Hi Thomas! I would love to see the effort! I think 64 by 64 map making is hard enough Very Happy Though if someone called pull it off that would be neat. Didn't WLHack make some maps that large? He had a map that involved going down ladders and it would make a whole other area. (Unless it's a trick he created).

ronwolf1705 wrote:
(maybe even more).


Heh. Takes me too long to just make a regular map! Either because I don't have enough motivation or because I just am no good at it. So even if 128x128 (and 256x256) are possible, I'll leave it to you guys to toy around with.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2012 12:19 am
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gerolf wrote:
Didn't WLHack make some maps that large? He had a map that involved going down ladders and it would make a whole other area. (Unless it's a trick he created).

That trick was probably a teleporter. A teleporter is just an object, and it could be anything from a sphere (as in the AReyeP/MCS universe) or ladders (like in Project Weltundergang which REALLY deserves SDL treatment too...) - so I'm pretty sure it's just a teleport. But I won't put a mark on it, I've never played anything WLHack's released (this was before SDL) sadly, but imagine if he came back one day! Beer

Ladders is one thing, but a staircase in 3D could also be an option if you've got the mind to do it, as well as design it.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2012 5:08 am
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Thomas wrote:
(like in Project Weltundergang which REALLY deserves SDL treatment too...)


I second that, such a great mod!

Quote:
That trick was probably a teleporter.


I think so as well, and combine that with pretty much filling the entire 64x64 grid and your level can look pretty huge. Beer
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2012 11:02 am
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Do you think the teleporter brought you to another spot of the same level, or was it an entire level on its own you were brought to? Stair would be a great idea, slopes would be too, as would higher floors and ceilings.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2012 11:53 am
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Usually (from what I've seen, anyway) the teleporter merely brings you to another part of the level rather than an entirely new map. At least that's how it works in the aforementioned Weltuntergang as well as Spear Resurrection. I suppose the only mod I've seen in which the process of arriving in a new level from another level is Poet's most recent mods (forgot the name) where you go from level 1 to 0 at once. But those Norwegians are crazy anyway. Laughing

Imagine a secret level with four sections; let's pretend it's Spear, level 19 or 20, whatever; one part of the level is approached from level 3, another from level 8, another from level 13 and another from level 17 (these are just examples); you know there's something secret, but you cannot arrive there from the same level. That would be sweeeet! Beer
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2012 12:00 pm
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Sounds like it'd be a little like Hexen: puzzles. puzzles. puzzles, DEATH. Though that would be cool, and it would be more cool in a Catacomb 3D style mod IMHO.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2012 1:18 pm
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Next community project: Spear Supersized? Mr Green
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2012 2:18 pm
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Haha, I'm not at all sure that anybody except the two of us maybe would want to spend time making a 128 x 128 map... Let alone find anyone willing to play it.

I like that prospect. I'm in.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2012 2:40 pm
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Quote:
I'm not at all sure that anybody except the two of us maybe would want to spend time making a 128 x 128 map


Yeah, that might be a problem. Laughing
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2012 4:40 pm
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Well, if these maps are not impossible, then a community project would be neat Very Happy

Once I get SS done, I wouldn't mind at least trying to make a 128x128 sized map.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2012 6:05 pm
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I suppose I might try making a 128x128 map in the future; I remember running out of map space in my creations more than once. Smile Sadly, Wolf modding really isn't a high priority for me right now; it's getting everything I need put into the new Ubuntu OS, install whatever additional software I need, and then program a (preposterously crappy) QB45 game. As bad as the QB45 game may become though, at least it has the potential to making an amusing online video. Smile
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2012 10:30 am
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Several years ago I know WLHack had been working on 128x128 maps, the end goal was to make it basically be fully playable 64x64x4 map, though where the player could see and travel through the different elevations around him. We never did get it to work properly, as the ways the levels were rendered would have needed a complete rewrite. In the end it just looked like a normal 64x64 with broken graphic boarders that constantly sent you walking into a copy of the 64x64 area you just left. The game would eventually crash from a memory overload.

If it ever did work, LARGE 128x128 sprites would make for a nice addition - some realistic plant life (trees taller than people for once?)

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2012 3:50 pm
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As far as I know 128x128 maps is quite easy to do. And I have seen large sprites in mods before as well.
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