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What put people off mapping for other Wolf engine games?
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vermil
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 16, 2010 12:20 pm
   Subject: What put people off mapping for other Wolf engine games?
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Obviously one can't mod them due to the lack of source code and they all came out at the same time as or after Doom back in the day, which overshadowed them then, but what has put people off mapping for Blake Stone AOG, Blake Stone PS, Corridor7, Operation Body Count and Super Noah's Ark to this day? Why has there never been a single map made for any of these games?

In the Doom world, there are lot's of Heretic maps, many HeXen maps, some Chex Quest maps and less than half dozen Strife maps. Every Doom engine game has had at least some maps made for it.

Certainly most of them have set in stone "objectives" of varying degrees of intrusiveness: Blake AOG requires you to find the red access card. Blake PS requires you to find the bomb and detonate the security cube. Corr7 requires you to kill every bad guy on a map and OBC requires you to kill a certain number of bad guys on a map.

Though both Blake games level objectives can be marginalized to a degree that they are essentially non-existent.

EDIT: Ok it seems about half dozen maps for Blake AOG were made by someone back in 1994; 3d Realms themselves host them.
http://www.3drealms.com/downloads.html
However, I don't know what they are like, as they need Mapedit to insert them into the games map file.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 16, 2010 1:13 pm
   Subject: What put people off mapping for other Wolf engine games?
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How about ack's levels for Planet Strike? Guy Brys also did Guystone for AOG and GuyStrike for Planet Strike.

All of the known Blake Stone mods can be found on the Blake Stone page at Mr. Lowe's Yellow website: http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~brlowe/blake.htm GuyStrike is not listed there, though. Confused

Edit: ack did not make levels for AOG
Edit2: added GuyStrike
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 16, 2010 6:06 pm
   Subject: Re: What put people off mapping for other Wolf engine games?
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Andy_Nonymous wrote:
How about ack's levels for Planet Strike? Guy Brys also did Guystone for AOG and GuyStrike for Planet Strike.

All of the known Blake Stone mods can be found on the Blake Stone page at Mr. Lowe's Yellow website: http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~brlowe/blake.htm GuyStrike is not listed there, though. Confused

Edit: ack did not make levels for AOG
Edit2: added GuyStrike


I just updated the Blake Stone page. Guystrike has been added. Smile

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 17, 2010 2:15 am
   Subject: Re: What put people off mapping for other Wolf engine games?
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Ok, I stand pleasantly corrected with regards to Blake Stone Smile

I've began playing Ack's Planet Strike map set and it's clearly done in the same style as his Wolf maps. I don't think said style works as well for Planet Strike though, game play wise or visually. I also found a bug on Area7; the Tech Warriors required to open the barriers in the first area aren't present on skill levels 1 and 2 and hence the barriers will never open

Given the Dome has a Doom2 add-ons page (though admittedly it is for Doom maps that are Wolf inspired), why isn't there a similar page for Blake Stone? I don't mention the other Wolf engine games because there seems to be no maps out there for them.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 17, 2010 11:05 am
   Subject: Re: What put people off mapping for other Wolf engine games?
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vermil wrote:
Given the Dome has a Doom2 add-ons page (though admittedly it is for Doom maps that are Wolf inspired), why isn't there a similar page for Blake Stone? I don't mention the other Wolf engine games because there seems to be no maps out there for them.


There is already a Blake Stone page on my other site at http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~brlowe/blake.htm . To put one on the Dome too would just duplicate information that's already available.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 17, 2010 12:50 pm
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I might have made maps for Corridor 7 if I had thought that anyone else was going to play them... but seeing as how there are probably only a few people out there who own the game (let alone liked it) due to how underrated it was, I've never made any.

But then again, I'm not really into making "maps only" sets anyway... it's just too limiting for me.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 18, 2010 7:38 am
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Actually, if somebody made some levels for Corridor 7 that were more like the demo then I might actually play it for more than a few seconds.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 7:11 pm
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Wouldnt making maps in any of these games would be somewhat difficult to play them since they would require the original game, and most people dont have them. Like, I wanted to make a super noah 3d mod sometime back, but like vermil said without source code it'd require anyone that wants to play it to have a registered super noah 3d.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 7:23 pm
   Subject: Re: What put people off mapping for other Wolf engine games?
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Re: Post #1. As far as Planet Strike goes, it never really sold well; not only were the Conventional Memory requirements much higher than the original, but Doom had also come out by that time, so Conventional Memory requirements were becoming "passe" in many people's eyes. It didn't help that there was no demo or trial version of the game, and Apogee did far too little to promote the product. The game didn't even appear in Apogee catalogs until ... 1995?
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 4:18 pm
   Subject: What put people off mapping for other Wolf engine games?
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I think that if you want to make levels for a unpopular game, go for it! Do you make mods only for the glory? Personally, I like the process of making them, and derive much satisfaction from completing them to my standards. And I learn lots of stuff along the way, getting better over time. If few or no one plays them after they are released, meh. But releasing them and seeing Brian post a news item for them is cool too! Cool

I'd play a Corridor 7 or Noah3D add-on. These would be quite unique in my collection of mods, and unique in the Wolf3d community too.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 07, 2011 8:05 pm
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Not to break out the gravedigging shovel, but...

Corridor 7 should have excited me more than it did, I love aliens in movies, literature, and so forth, even did a pretty complex sprite edit for a new Corridor 7 enemy (see Llib on the Image World), but the game just didn't do it for me. The art style, the sound effects, they weren't bad but they just put me off. I'd have no interest in playing any more of it, despite having completed the original registered version.

Operation: Body Count, well...no. After surviving hordes of screaming hobos and sewer monsters and finally realizing my aim sucked because my shots were NOT going where the barrel was pointing, I was already majorly turned off on the game, a while spent playing the very repetetive building levels eventually saw the game getting uninstalled. You'd have to change everything about the game to get me to play it again, new maps alone would not do it.

As for Noah's Ark, well, I have a confession - I liked the original PC version. But I wouldn't play new levels for the same reason I never download map only sets for Wolfenstein - I have "ADD" when it comes to seeing new maps that utilize the exact same materials from the original game, and knowing I won't see any new enemies or new bosses turns me off. That's not the fault of those who just love to map, and I know I miss out on some great sets this way, it's just how I am...

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 28, 2011 5:04 am
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A while back I released an 8 level mapset for "Catacomb 3d". 4 of the maps were made by various authors, including my MOTHER, my fiancee' and Adam Biser, and the other 4 were made by a random map generator I had created, probably not what you were expecting, but I could post them again.

IMO I think corridor 7 deserves a new mapset. The original maps were horrible, and I think a good quality mapset, especially one that wouldn't force you to kill all the enemies in the level, would be awesome. It's been a while since I played Corridor7, but I think this may be doable with hex editing (set the requirement for the number of enemies to be cleared to 1) and then if you could make it so the exit elevator wasn't the same thing as where you started, you could map it just like Wolfenstein. Heck, my mom's actually been bugging me about doing more mapping, as she really enjoyed it. Maybe I could convince her to do some Corridor 7 maps. Razz

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 01, 2011 1:44 am
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I don't think Corridor 7's Disk maps are bad; sure they are a bit simpler than Wolf3D and Blake Stone's maps, particularly the converted floors, but they are well designed.

Corridor 7 was a game with considerable untapped potential, which was part of the reason behind my Corr7 TC for Doom; take the original game and try to re-image it to achieve some of that potential (i.e. using the original maps, graphics etc).

It would be interesting to see that aim applied to more of a remake.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2011 5:46 am
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I need to try your mod sometime. I've been looking at it admiringly lately. I was just bored of Corridor 7 after a few levels, It just made me impatient I think, but I've always wanted to go back and beat the darn thing just to see it all.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2012 8:51 am
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Ok. Vermil I know this is an extremely OLD topic, but I finally got around to trying your Corridor 7 mod. And while I enjoy it greatly, its F**'ing hard!!!! Ammo scarcity is the main problem and I find myself planning out strategies to enter each room using as little resources as possible and figuring out which rooms I can safely bypass. This has gotten to the point of such frustration that I haven't played it in about a month, but I plan on trying again someday. Thanks for putting the effort into this, I just wanted you to know that someone else actually played it.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2012 3:39 am
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Glad you enjoyed the mod.

Remember, Doom's weapon behavior is different to Wolf3D's.

Wolf3D draws a straight line and then does a random check as to whether it 'hits'. The chance of a hit decreases with distance. The damage dealt by a successful hit also decreases with distance.

Doom on the other hand draws the line and then offset's the angle of it by a random amount within a set range. However the damage dealt by a hit doesn't decrease with distance.

In practical terms this means this means guns in Doom aren't as accurate at distance, so you have to get closer to the target. But if you hit at distance, you generally do more damage than in Wolf3D.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2012 4:33 am
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One of the reasons I've never made anything that wasn't Wolf 3D (not even Spear) is because I find it a comfort zone, something I've always hanged on to, and something I apparently still like doing.

Another reason is, I never played any of those games like I played Wolf. I mean, I did play the Blake demo about the same time as I tried the Wolf demo the first time, and that's 13 years ago or something. I liked the whole spacey bit, the scientists, the big halls, the Tesla coils and all that. I never considered modifying Blake Stone. I don't know why. Operation: Body Count, though... I think the reason most people shy away from that is the awful graphics, as well as sounds. The features are good and the weaponry is even a tad more inventive than that of Wolf 3D (the flamethrower at least, if I recall right? Or was it a grenade shooter?) but it's so damn depressing. Everything is brown/dark red/dark green and it's just horrible. If you could modify the palette to bits, optimize the sound atmosphere and all that, then we might be talking.

I have no idea about Corridor 7. I only heard of it when I joined this forum. But from what I can see, it's way better than Body Count (well, most things are, aren't they...) so it is a bit odd that it hasn't been messed with... And Super Noah's Ark is just embarrassing. Fun graphics though.

Did anyone ever modify Ken's Labyrinth? Or Catacomb Abyss, even? Laughing
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2012 6:34 am
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Every other Wolf engine game imo is simply too bad or even horrible to even think of mapping for them

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2012 7:01 am
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Though that can be seen as a challenge I guess. Mr Green
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2012 8:56 am
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Thomas wrote:
One of the reasons I've never made anything that wasn't Wolf 3D (not even Spear) is because I find it a comfort zone, something I've always hanged on to, and something I apparently still like doing.

Another reason is, I never played any of those games like I played Wolf. I mean, I did play the Blake demo about the same time as I tried the Wolf demo the first time, and that's 13 years ago or something. I liked the whole spacey bit, the scientists, the big halls, the Tesla coils and all that. I never considered modifying Blake Stone. I don't know why. Operation: Body Count, though... I think the reason most people shy away from that is the awful graphics, as well as sounds. The features are good and the weaponry is even a tad more inventive than that of Wolf 3D (the flamethrower at least, if I recall right? Or was it a grenade shooter?) but it's so damn depressing. Everything is brown/dark red/dark green and it's just horrible. If you could modify the palette to bits, optimize the sound atmosphere and all that, then we might be talking.

I have no idea about Corridor 7. I only heard of it when I joined this forum. But from what I can see, it's way better than Body Count (well, most things are, aren't they...) so it is a bit odd that it hasn't been messed with... And Super Noah's Ark is just embarrassing. Fun graphics though.

Did anyone ever modify Ken's Labyrinth? Or Catacomb Abyss, even? Laughing


I've actually modified both Ken's Labyrinth and Catcomb 3d, but only released one to the general public. I did post a number of screenshots from my test mod for Ken's labyrinth, but they were doctored a bit for some "mockup" thing we were doing on the forums. The Labyrinth mod never got very far, just a few graphics.

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