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Tricob
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Ubermutant
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Executor
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Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 7:57 pm
Subject: Re: TCs - What's left? You decide.
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And it's not complicated at all. You unzip ECWolf to a directory, you copy the various stock game data files (.wl6, .wl1, .sod, .sdm) that you want to the directory, and then run, it even gives you a simple option menu to pick which game to run. For a mod, you unzip the pk3 or wad to the directory and either drag and drop the file on top of the executable or run "ecwolf [filename]". You're just spreading FUD with no actual truth behind it. |
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Soldat 555
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Blzut3
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Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 6:00 am
Subject: Re: TCs - What's left? You decide.
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If the drag and drop is confusing then use the command line as Executor stated. You still have to tell ECWolf/ZDoom what base game to load, which is why the "iwad" dialog still appears. If you look at the terminal it should tell you if you successfully loaded a mod since it will say "adding <filename>, <X> lumps". If there was a typo or something it will print an error saying it could not be opened. |
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Executor
DieHard Officer


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Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 6:50 am
Subject: Re: TCs - What's left? You decide.
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Soldat 555 wrote:
Executor wrote:
For a mod, you unzip the pk3 or wad to the directory and either drag and drop the file on top of the executable or run "ecwolf [filename]".
Sounds like ZDoom, I've had various issues with getting mods to work that port as mods won't appear in the game/wad list and when I drag the wad over the exe it only runs Doom.wad.
Comparing that to SDL where you just unzip the zip/rar to whatever directory/folder you want DOES make ECWolf sound a bit more complicated. That's one of the many reasons I do prefer Wolf mods over Doom mods, unless you know how to install the mod properly it won't play... Or it will but with errors.
I'm not knocking ECWolf or it's capabilities, I merely see how that can be too much to do for some people like me where we prefer unzip the files, edit the files we know to edit, and run the exe.
You're making up a challenge that doesn't exist. Installing Doom mods is really easy (unless they're old vanilla wads from 1995 that use DeusF anyway, but nobody makes those anymore). Besides, if you have 200 mods (for comparison, I have 224 wads and 92 pk3s in my ZDoom folder) in your ECWolf folder, how is ECWolf supposed to know which one you want to run without you telling it? |
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Tricob
Moderator

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Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 2:53 pm
Subject: Re: TCs - What's left? You decide.
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Executor wrote:
You're making up a challenge that doesn't exist. Installing Doom mods is really easy (unless they're old vanilla wads from 1995 that use DeusF anyway, but nobody makes those anymore). Besides, if you have 200 mods (for comparison, I have 224 wads and 92 pk3s in my ZDoom folder) in your ECWolf folder, how is ECWolf supposed to know which one you want to run without you telling it?
Installing Doom mods is easy *if* you know what you're doing, yes. But many people don't, and IMO, it's much more heavy-handed than it needs to be.
As to how ECWolf will know which mod to use, how about the mod located where you're running the EXE? Like in Wolf4SDL? To me, this makes perfect sense. I'm confused as to why you're against devising the EXE this way.  |
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gerolf
DieHard Wolfer


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Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 2:59 pm
Subject: Re: TCs - What's left? You decide.
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TCs - What's left? You decide in 3...2..1.
I think the ability to destroy walls, doors, objects, etc. should be a feature in a future TC.
Or perphaps enemies that have AI that isn't just "stand, run, walk, patrol, shoot, get hit, die"
Like... their guns jamming, shooting themselves, taunting, etc. There's never been enough interactivity of those sorts with Wolfenstein. |
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Soldat 555
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Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 3:27 pm
Subject: Re: TCs - What's left? You decide.
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Executor wrote:
You're making up a challenge that doesn't exist. Installing Doom mods is really easy (unless they're old vanilla wads from 1995 that use DeusF anyway, but nobody makes those anymore). Besides, if you have 200 mods (for comparison, I have 224 wads and 92 pk3s in my ZDoom folder) in your ECWolf folder, how is ECWolf supposed to know which one you want to run without you telling it?
Can't say about ECWolf but I tried getting both QuakeDoom mods to work and only succeeded on PSP. I tried Command Prompt, I tried Run from the Start menu, neither appear in the "select an IWAD to use" menu, I tried drag onto the exe file and if it doesn't crash on me, it just runs Doom II. You obviously didn't understand what I mean by simple so I'm gonna break it down...
WOLF4SDL
Step 1: Unzip into new folder
Step 2: Double click the exe/application file
Step 3: Navigate menu, play game
This is a method pretty much everyone who uses Windows and downloads games know, "Unzip, run application/executable file".
ECWOLF (At least how you guys described the steps)
Step 1: Install ECWolf
Step 2: Unzip ECWolf wad/wad like file
Step 3: Either A: drag wad file onto ECWolf exe file, B: Use Run from start menu and type C:\WhereverECWolfIsInstalled\ECwolf.exe "Mod.wad" or C: Use Command Prompt, type cd\WhereverECWolfIsInstalled\ ENTER ecwolf.exe "mod.wad" ENTER
Step 4: Navigate menu, play game
This method, which only has one more step CAN be confusing if people don't read a step by step in a ReadMe file or asks for help online. I only know Command Prompt and Run solely because I grew up typing everything out in Dos.
Why you're so defensive towards Tricob and I, I don't know or understand. We simply stated "We've had/seen trouble with ECWolf/ZDoom. It's easier to use SDL in our opinions." And just like him, I'm a bit confused why you brought up ChaosEdit messing up ECWolf VGAGraph files but if it does that makes me prefer SDL even more as I prefer using ChaosEdit way more than WDC (Which I only use to identify music). |
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Executor
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Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 4:07 pm
Subject: Re: TCs - What's left? You decide.
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Because he complained about ECWolf not working during the initial release and it was because he used altered VGAGRAPH files that ChaosEdit had corrupted and written garbage to. |
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Soldat 555
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Blzut3
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Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 6:22 pm
Subject: Re: TCs - What's left? You decide.
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Tricob wrote:
As to how ECWolf will know which mod to use, how about the mod located where you're running the EXE? Like in Wolf4SDL? To me, this makes perfect sense. I'm confused as to why you're against devising the EXE this way.
The name of that file is? Remember that ECWolf mods are a single file with a descriptive name instead of multiple files following a set naming convention (and by necessity do not include an exe). Furthermore, instead of being forced to be TCs, they can build upon resources in the original data (legally). Unlike Wolf4SDL forks, ECWolf interprets mods at run time so you need to tell it what you want to play. Hopefully some GUI launchers will come out in the future to assist with this though.
I wonder if shipping mods with batch files would help?
Soldat 555 wrote:
neither appear in the "select an IWAD to use" menu, I tried drag onto the exe file and if it doesn't crash on me, it just runs Doom II.
I'm kind of confused here actually. When you drag and drop, then select Doom 2 in the IWAD menu (An IWAD is the base game data which is loaded before the mod itself since the mod build upon it) you say you have trouble getting the mod to load? (Same goes for ECWolf only with Wolf3D instead of Doom 2.) In the command line you can use -iwad doom2.wad (or in ECWolf's case --data wl6) to skip this step if you really want to. If this isn't working then it's probably a read error which the respective engines should print something like "Can not stat <filename>" in the console.
Soldat 555 wrote:
So he complained in another topic and he didn't know ChaosEdit was the culprit. Whoopity-Doo! This only further suggests ECWolf's more complex than Wolf4SDL as it's not as compatible with editors. He prefers Wolf4SDL, you prefer ECWolf, you shouldn't get pissy and defensive that he doesn't like the same toys you like. It's that simple.
ECWolf is compatible with editors, although ChaosEdit has a tendency to produce incorrect data. ECWolf is a generic engine and relies on working header information in order to find data within the file, the Wolf3D source does not. You are, however, strongly recommended not to use the Wolf3D wl6 file formats with ECWolf as they are too limited to use the engine to it's full potential. For everything but maps, Slade 3 is an adequate tool which I do believe is quite easy to use. Obviously if you're not familiar with Doom editing there may be a slight learning curve here. (As a side note, ECWolf 1.1 will be a little more tolerant of invalid data, but it is ultimately only able to make guesses when correcting errors.)
Please excuse Executor's over reactions. He hasn't really done major project releases like this one before. It is important for us to do whatever we can to persuade people to start using ECWolf, and it is easy to over react to negative comments. Especially ones which seem to stem from user error (use of tampered data files). I understand that major shifts like these take time, so while I encourage you to start working with ECWolf as soon as possible, if it lacks a feature you need then so be it. I would appreciate it if these features are brought to my attention through the issue tracker though. |
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Executor
DieHard Officer


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Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 6:30 pm
Subject: Re: TCs - What's left? You decide.
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ECWolf can't "run the mod located where you're running the exe", because a potentially infinite number of mods may be located there. As Blzut3 said, each mod is one file, so you can have tons and tons of mods in one folder. Instead of having an installation for each mod, you have one installation and all your ECWolf mods go in the same place. When you're using self-contained file formats like .wad and .pk3, having one installation per mod is a gigantic waste. |
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BrotherTank
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Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 9:08 pm
Subject: Re: TCs - What's left? You decide.
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Hey Guys...
[Moderator Hat Sortof On]
Lets drop the ECwolf crap and move it to it's original or own thread.
[Moderator Hat Off]
This subject is about the future of Wolf3d and the games/TC's that it spawns. So lets take this thread back to where it belongs... What's left - What can you do - What would you like to do - Where to take = Wolf3d/SOD Mods and TC's????
Greg
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Ubermutant
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Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 10:53 pm
Subject: Re: TCs - What's left? You decide.
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Thanks BT
What if the Nazis from the future invaded the past, there'd be a medieval type setting but with cleverly disguised futuristic type stuff in it. |
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doomjedi
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Posted: Sat Dec 08, 2012 12:01 am
Subject: Re: TCs - What's left? You decide.
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Interesting idea.
Thought to do this for ancient egypt theme/setting in the past - Nazis wanting to get the Spear from Egyptians pharaohs.... |
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Thomas
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Posted: Sat Dec 08, 2012 3:03 am
Subject: Re: TCs - What's left? You decide.
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That sounds like a swell idea! However, I'm afraid it's going to take a lot of balls to make such a game and make it solid. Team Raycast, land ho! |
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Tricob
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Thomas
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Posted: Sat Dec 08, 2012 7:01 am
Subject: Re: TCs - What's left? You decide.
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I also think it's about time that we get a communist-themed mod. Take it this way: Patton and Eisenhower start seeing eye to eye, somehow the reports on war crimes, atrocities etc. done by the communists are revealed, and it results in full-scale war between GB/US and the USSR. |
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gerolf
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Posted: Sat Dec 08, 2012 7:45 am
Subject: Re: TCs - What's left? You decide.
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gerolf wrote:
I think the ability to destroy walls, doors, objects, etc. should be a feature in a future TC.
Or perhaps enemies that have AI that isn't just "stand, run, walk, patrol, shoot, get hit, die"
Like... their guns jamming, shooting themselves, taunting, etc. There's never been enough interactivity of those sorts with Wolfenstein.
Reposting since it was washed away...
Oh, the Communist idea.. Sounds good, maybe a Cold War themed one, with all the top secret operations that went on, I'm sure someone could make something up It's just, the past few times I've seen someone make a game with Wolf where you fight Russians, they usually just make them wear red uniforms
Also about the Nazis time traveling... It depends on where they time travel that determines how good it is. I think it'd be a pretty cool idea if they time traveled to the American Civil War and aided the Confederates, and you must travel back in time, or history will forever be changed. Go back to the French Revolution thing against GB (didn't study this one very much), and have it where they are aiding France, but then will conquer them once it's over.. And then something about Russia's past. So they're trying to weaken the allies. |
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doomjedi
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doomjedi
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Posted: Sat Dec 08, 2012 8:57 am
Subject: Re: TCs - What's left? You decide.
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Yes, it's about time for some serious Russian-themed mod.
If people need translations to russian for signs and such - just PM me
Can even recored sounds (though non-proffecionally, from comp's mike)
I've released some related art in the past BTW. |
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Soldat 555
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Posted: Sun Dec 09, 2012 12:52 pm
Subject: Re: TCs - What's left? You decide.
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Ha! Do you guys know what would be an interesting Wolf3d mod? Pinball! lol
Think about it, arrow keys control flippers, POV could be from the ball and would automatically turn when jumping/falling. Bumpers and stuff could be Wolf3d based like knocking down Nazi flags, hitting Guards and officers, after say 1,000,000 points a boss could rise from the table and you have to hit them like 50 times to get more points or move onto the next table.
I think it'd be a trippy idea.  |
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doomjedi
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Posted: Sun Dec 09, 2012 1:00 pm
Subject: Re: TCs - What's left? You decide.
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I don't like ideas that move 2D to 3D without adding any of 3D-advantages to it...why to do it then? Same to 3D PacMan, Sokoban, BomberMan...and other games based heavily on top/over-view perspective. |
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linuxwolf
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Posted: Sun Dec 09, 2012 11:44 pm
Subject: Re: TCs - What's left? You decide.
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Someone should make a 2D Wolf3D themed pinball game then. It could be a lot of fun to play on a handheld phone or tablet. |
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Soldat 555
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Tricob
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Soldat 555
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Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 9:20 am
Subject: Re: TCs - What's left? You decide.
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Another idea I thought would be cool is a middle-eastern themed mod. I know RonWolf's been working on some cool Arfika Corps themed levels but I mean more like Lawrence Of Arabia or 6 Day War kinda mod.  |
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Ubermutant
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Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2014 1:17 am
Subject: Re: TCs - What's left? You decide.
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How about a TC based on Michael Jackson's Moonwalker (either the sega game or the movie) |
_________________ Still cant wait for more Chokage (Especially Mr. Buff)
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Tricob
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Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2014 5:30 am
Subject: Re: TCs - What's left? You decide.
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Thanks for the feedback! It's been a long time since I'd seen the movie, but the last time I did, I really enjoyed it. As for the game, I much prefer the arcade version myself; the Sega version just had too many things cut out of it, and it just didn't play as well for me. It could be more personal taste than anything else; I grew up playing more arcade games than I did console games (or computer games, for that matter), and I have a real soft spot for releases with an arcade "feel" to them. |
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