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Top 3 favorite and least favorite original maps?
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2016 4:36 pm
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What are your top 3 favorite maps and top 3 least favorite maps from the original game? Here are mine.

Favorite.

1. E4 M2 - Love the "castle" layout. While this design concept was used often in Spear of Destiny, its the only original Wolf level to use it.
2. E4 M5 - Very atmospheric. I remember being creeped out by its torture chambers when playing it as a kid
3. E6 M7 - I remember it took me a while to figure this one out the first time I played it. I especially love that you can see into and have officers shooting at you from the secret areas (that can only be accessed by tediously searching the maze for pushwalls) in the main foyer. Very nice touch.

Least favorite

This is hard because there are very few bad id levels, but here goes.

1. E4L10 - Probably the most boring secret level in the game
2. E3M7 - The highlight of the map is the maze leading to the infamous PacMan level. The normal part of this map just isn't very good
3. E2L9 - Episode 2 of the original Wolf was amazing, but its boss level could have been so much better in my opinion.
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 18, 2016 4:57 am
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Favorite:

1. E6L6 - Somehow I really enjoy the chaotic structure of this one. Generally, levels are made of uniformly-textured rooms separated with doors. Here, the expectations are violated and you go into a room that feels more like "inside" but then it ends up still being "outside". You have things like the door at 15,27 that looks like an important door with important stuff inside if you approach it from the south because of the two flags, but it turns out the door doesn't even lead into another room. The door below it technically leads to another room, but it's equally pointless and equally important-looking.
Another memorable thing about this level is the demo playing there and the demo bug. It had to be the bug with some older version because I never see it now, but it seemed that some randomness factor wasn't saved in the demo, resulting in one demo that could play out in a few different ways, one non-desynced and the rest increasingly more nonsensical. It was most interesting on this level's demo, where the player a) made it through the starting corridor and died in the marble corridor as intended, b) didn't pick the machine gun and got killed by the second SS (the one at 37,32), c) killed the dog but not the guard and got shot, d) killed the guard but not the dog and got mauled, e) after flopping around a bit, ended up exiting through the first door (35,36) instead of the farthest one (38,31).

2. E3L6 - Many fun secrets in this one, the optional gold key maze, the silver key trick and the blue area that eluded me for a long time.

2. E6L8 - All the shortcut secrets, especially when they let you perform all the silent kills. And after the golden key it always felt to me like the level should end any moment now, but it kept going on and on and on.

3. E6L3 - the swastika mosaic works pretty well, and it always was a fun gimmick to me. I also liked making the guards open the golden door because I could never find the key.

Least favorite:

1. E6L2 - it's certainly pretty ridiculous. I remember always feeling relieved when I found a door leading further inside the circle, and frustrated when I was forced to take a door going farther outside the circle. (A square-shaped circle if you want to nitpick).

2. E4L10 - nuff said. I'm glad the Mac/Jaguar version gives you a flamethrower on this level (a pretty necessary thing considering the direction-less enemies), it makes the whole thing much simpler and quite cathartic.

3. E4L6 - not a very interesting gimmick, to say the least. The rest of the level is also pretty average.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 14, 2016 10:22 pm
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Favorite:

E2M4 - Probably the best opening sequence of any original Id map, hectic, dynamic, and violent.

E6M8 - I would have put E4M8 here, but, its visually striking color and texture theme aside (#706C00 being my favorite ceiling color), as a big sprawling epic map it doesn't hold up as well as I remember. This one does. It's so huge it's almost like a city, straining against the vanilla Wolf3D limits. They clearly wanted E6 to go out in style, and E6M8 definitely works as a warm-up to the grand finale. I ended up doing an homage to this map in the form of Wolfenstein Sextilogy E3M3, "North Wing".

E5M6 - It was unique among the original maps for giving a sense of being "outside", and still holds up today for the way it uses and requires you to understand the space it takes place in. It feels like a cohesive location rather than a jumble of rooms. If only it were twice the size.

Least favorite:
Secret levels are not included, because otherwise my least favorite OG Wolfenstein levels would be "every secret level except E3M10 and E6M10". They're all pretty bad, especially E4M10 and E5M10.

E6M1 - Slow, grinding, and frustrating. There are much more interesting ways of doing a difficult level (for instance, E6M6, SoD map16) without making you shoot the same officers in the same featureless hallways at the same glacial pace for ten minutes.

E3M1-5 (all of them together, since they're all the same): These tiny stubs hardly even deserve to be called maps. They look like Romero spent about 45 minutes apiece on them.

E2M6 - Forgettable, low effort maze map of the kind I used to do when I was around 13. The Road to Despair filler maps, here we come!

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 14, 2016 11:03 pm
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Executor wrote:
Favorite:

E2M4 - Probably the best opening sequence of any original Id map, hectic, dynamic, and violent.

E6M8 - I would have put E4M8 here, but, its visually striking color and texture theme aside (#706C00 being my favorite ceiling color), as a big sprawling epic map it doesn't hold up as well as I remember. This one does. It's so huge it's almost like a city, straining against the vanilla Wolf3D limits. They clearly wanted E6 to go out in style, and E6M8 definitely works as a warm-up to the grand finale. I ended up doing an homage to this map in the form of Wolfenstein Sextilogy E3M3, "North Wing".

E5M6 - It was unique among the original maps for giving a sense of being "outside", and still holds up today for the way it uses and requires you to understand the space it takes place in. It feels like a cohesive location rather than a jumble of rooms. If only it were twice the size.

Least favorite:
Secret levels are not included, because otherwise my least favorite OG Wolfenstein levels would be "every secret level except E3M10 and E6M10". They're all pretty bad, especially E4M10 and E5M10.

E6M1 - Slow, grinding, and frustrating. There are much more interesting ways of doing a difficult level (for instance, E6M6, SoD map16) without making you shoot the same officers in the same featureless hallways at the same glacial pace for ten minutes.

E3M1-5 (all of them together, since they're all the same): These tiny stubs hardly even deserve to be called maps. They look like Romero spent about 45 minutes apiece on them.

E2M6 - Forgettable, low effort maze map of the kind I used to do when I was around 13. The Road to Despair filler maps, here we come!


Good to hear your perspective on this.

I can agree with most of this, with the exception that I actually like E6M1. It's a polarizing level though and I can understand why many do not like it. E2M6 also was not bad and is one of the few maps in the original game that use the purple texture well. Definitely not the best map though.

You have a good point about Episode 3 though. E3 has Map 6 and Map 8 which are really good. If it wasn't for them, it would be by far the worst episode of Id's game. Floors 1-5 were fine in concept but they were just too simple. It would take me like 20-30 minutes a piece tops to make those maps. The focal point of Floor 7 is the maze and finding the secret level. If you took that aspect out of it, it would be the worst level of all 60 in my opinion (not including secret or boss levels).

Id's boss levels were all underwhelming except for the E6 boss level. As for the secret levels, I liked E1, E3, and E6. The rest weren't very good.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 15, 2016 3:12 am
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Favorites:

E6L7 - the variation of the entire level which feels enormous, the menacing music and the ceiling which can assimilate to pretty much any situation. I'm a sucker for that one, also very fond of the opening arena where you have columns separating the secret areas containing treasure and guards.

E2L4 - a more gloomy and downbeat level, still vast in size and filled with what at first play felt like a vast array of secret areas. First impressions last the longest, and I still remember exactly how I felt when I played this for the first time.

E6L6 - the fact that it's madness from the get go, you're never safe, and the usage of textures is pretty extreme.

Other favorites would be E5L2, E3L8 and of course E6L10.

Least favorites:

E5L10 - even when I first played it I felt cheated. The Into the Dungeons music was always a favorite of mine and I felt it had been wasted on this weak level. I kept clapping walls here and there hoping for something to happen... But it never did.

E6L2 - too gray, too big and not entertaining enough compared to the fact that you're in Episode 6 which was a huge deal for me when I first played it - the ultimate episode. With more variation it may have been all right, at least structure-wise, but it's just too much gray, very confusing and the 2/3 square secret door bug really blotted out any chance of me finding any when I played this game originally.

E4L10 - as with E5L10 I felt this was just cheap, though I had reserved semi-legendary status for it when talking with a mate at school about how he had played the full version once, speaking of a level with "white men" who "kept disappearing". This was long before I started making levels myself and knew about bugs and so on. But looking back it is a really bland level with very cheap enemy placement too, as they are all skill 1 guards, if I recall correctly.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 15, 2016 6:07 am
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Favorites:

E2L4: Mentioned a lot, and for good reason. Epic opening. Music fits perfectly. All around creepy atmosphere.

E5L5: has two of my favorite sequences of all time: the opening area, and the silver key area. Especially that silver key area can turn into a real [Censored] with guards coming from all sides, if you're not careful. Fantastic stuff!

A tie between E5L6 & E4L2 for third place. Two distinctive levels.

Least favorite:

E6L2: Freaking mazes.

E5L10: The worst secret level of the game (though E4L10 is close behind it).

E5L4: not necessarily a bad level; I just find symmetry in Wolf3D levels overrated and kinda boring.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 15, 2016 9:21 am
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I'm not sure I can do a top three in the entire game but I can go by episode. Secret and boss levels are excluded.

E1 favorite/least: Honestly no definite pick in terms of E1M1-E1M8 for either. If secret levels were included, E1M10 would be my favorite in E1.

E2 favorite: E2M5 - The sky, the shape (enhances atmosphere), the design, and four distinct textures. Not a whole lot to dislike here.

E2 least favorite: Probably E2M3, just because it's almost all green slime (not a fan of one texture). [I'm excluding Aardwolf maze from consideration here, so E2M8 I'd be rating only on the base level and in that case it isn't my least favorite.]

E3 favorite: Probably E3M8, but with a nod to E3M6. E3M6 has good use of areas that are/aren't required, plus a rather sneaky secret for that key.

E3 last favorite*: Probably E3M7, it's a one texture level.

*I actually don't think there's a levels that I'd consider all that weak in E3. As short levels, I don't have a big problem with E3M1-E3M5.

E4 favorite: E4M8 - All those textures, a starting trap, not an easy pistol start map either. I kind of like the hodgepodge. The end elevator is unusually dangerous too. Another reasonably done secret shortcut.

E4 least favorite: E4M7 - This one could be good with some changes, but as it is, it's a bomb. The required route is way too short, both keys should be required and in different places, and the gold key both hidden AND blockable is a huge strike since you might not jam the door open plus as I said, I think you should need both keys. The only plus point is it's a surprise the first time to see enemies flood through a locked door; it's the only level in the original where that happens.

E5 favorite: E5M5 - Good design, ample heat around both keys. A nod to E5M6 for its unique feel and ceiling color though.

E5 least favorite: E5M3 - It's just too brief and too easy to leave an impression. That said, there isn't really a normal level in E5 that I dislike.

E6 favorite: Tough choice that I can't really decide on because there's a lot of good and more challenging levels in this episodes (basically E6M3-E6M8). Maybe a slight tip toward E6M3/E6M6/E6M8 versus E6M4/E6M5/E6M7.

E6 least favorite: E6M2 - One texture, mazey-ness. It's not all that bad though.

Secret levels from favorite to least favorite: E6M10, E1M10, E3M10 (for nostalgia), E4M10, E2M10, E5M10 (the last three are all pretty poor though)

Boss levels: I don't really dislike any boss level. I wish E6M9 has less stocking in its secrets though. E3M9 and E6M9 would probably be my top two regardless.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 15, 2016 6:51 pm
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I need to play Wolf3D all the way through again, as the last time I did was before 2014, the year my identity crisis began (it ended earlier this year).

But the last time I played through the whole thing, this was my take ...

My favorites:
E6L10 - This one has three separate boss sequences and is crammed with delights ... all in one map. I always find it a special pleasure to play through.
E6L04 - You know this level is going to be different when a dog (or dogs) start attacking you the very moment the level starts. I always find this level exciting to play through from start to finish.
E2L04 - Way too much of the grey walls with moss, but I love how the level starts itself out being immediately engaging. The numerous secret areas make this map.

My least favorites:
E2L10 - I really like the concept this level follows, but I thought the execution was extremely bland. I thought there was a serious lack of strategy as well as creativity. And the excessive amount of blank, blue-colored walls really robbed this map of its character. Minus 100 points for a wasted opportunity.
E4L10 - Another interesting concept, but I found nothing interesting about this map's design, and it had absolutely no replay value. It's quite a shame, as I thought the level had a lot of interesting possibilities.
E1L09 - There's two massive halls, one large secret, one boss, and another secret. That's it. No other guard types, no strategy, and not even one single treasure. The first time I opened the locked door, I went through it expecting a whole lot more for the level to offer. And instead, the game just ... ended.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 15, 2016 7:31 pm
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^^^ I definitely get what you are saying about E1L09. You get a 1-Up after defeating Hans, but why? I do think E2L9 is worse though. Quite frankly, in Wolf3D pretty much all boss levels are "meh" except for Episode 6. SoD does a much better job with its boss levels.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2016 3:03 pm
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I thought E2L09 was far better, personally. For one, there was more than one type of enemy. Second, there was a higher number of secrets, and the locations of many of them were harder to locate than those in E1L09. Third, the level was much more challenging overall. And fourth, the boss actually threw projectiles at you rather than just fired bullets. Schabbs's attack was so different from anything that the game had done before, it gave the level a fresh new "feel" to the game. Schabbs isn't just an SS with a higher health bar. He "feels" different because he is different. And that made E2L09 a much more memorable experience for me than E1L09.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2016 12:58 pm
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My favorites:

1. E6L7 - Cyan ceiling which is my favorite color, pretty hard and challenging especially at the beginning and the 4-side room with officer behind pillars in the blue area which I think is one of the best design in Wolf3d. The secret area with vines and one-ups guarded by officers is interesting too.

2. E6L4 - Compact level which I like, narrow and I like the music. Even though the level looks small but surprisingly it contains 110 enemies which has more than the larger level like E4L6, E1L5 or E6L2.

3a. E5L8 - The elevator near beginning and I surprised when first time I played it on hardest skill because It has huge different amount of enemy from the easiest skill to hardest skill especially in red brick area, which from only three guards to a ton of enemies contain SS and officers.

3b. E5L5 - Same as above especially in wooden area containing gold key which is from like 4 SS to a ton of enemies, even including dogs.

Least favorites:

1. E4L6 - Too many doors and It's tedious to open all that door to get everything.

2. E2L2 - I don't know but it's short, kinda boring and lack of decoration in red brick area.

3. E6L1 - Too many nooks with officers which is tedious, repetitive and make you slow. Backtracking if you want to get 100%.

I would say E5L10 is my least favorite too but it quite challenging especially at the beginning because there is no foods or medkit until the area in locked door before the elevator and the officers in narrow area which can suddenly shoot you and sometimes take half of your health.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2016 1:51 pm
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E5L5 was definitely one of Episode 5's strongest points. To me, it achieved complexity in its layout without being annoying to venture through. The secret elevator area was the icing on the cake. One of the top ten maps of the game, to be sure. Smile
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2016 2:05 pm
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E5L5 is pretty awesome indeed Smile
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2016 2:16 pm
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Favorites:

1. E6L6: As others have said, the odd mixture of different wall textures works surprisingly well. Starting at the center of the level and having all the enemies collapse upon you makes for an exhilarating gameplay experience. There's very few nooks to hide in and find safety.

2. E2L6: It's hard to pick just one level from E2, but this one edges out a few others for capturing that awesome Eisenfaust mood. I like how the purple walls blend with the slimey ceiling color. The key room is cool too where shooting the guard unleashes the SS from the three surrounding rooms.

3. E1L7: The Episode 1 maps are kind of vanilla, but the nostalgia from playing the old shareware version way back when is hard to resist. L7 was always my favorite level in this episode, with the wood panelling and that room with the columns leading to other areas. Very close call over E5L6 with its cave outer wall. What is it with L6 being awesome in every episode?

Least Favorite:

1. Any secret level not from Episode 6 or possibly Episode 1. Pick one -- they're all bad.

2. E6L2: I liked it when I first played it, but it has not aged well. Now it's just tedious.

3. E2L7: The concept of a super small level with a large secret area is kind of interesting, but it's so small that it leaves no impression whatsoever.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2016 3:29 pm
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Gary wrote:
E2L6: It's hard to pick just one level from E2, but this one edges out a few others for capturing that awesome Eisenfaust mood. I like how the purple walls blend with the slimey ceiling color. The key room is cool too where shooting the guard unleashes the SS from the three surrounding rooms.

For some reason, the purple and dark yellow colors blend together well, I suppose in part because of the goo on the purple stones matches the dark yellow ceiling color. The key trick is killer. I just remember thinking the purple maze area to be HUGE when I first played it. Don't know if this inspired Schabbs 2000 level 11? I always thought of E2L6 when playing that particular level.

On another note, E2L6 is also the first level (right?) with a trick elevator. I remember when I first played the full Wolf, upon seeing this lighter-shaded elevator door (as it is in the N/S position) that it may be another secret level or something like that... Only to shoot like a maniac at all the mutants.

Upon looking at you guys' comments I regret not listing E5L5 & 6. Two absolutely wonderful levels, always thought E5L6 was one of the few levels that provoked something outside-y (or something like that, assuming the brown weave is the wilderness and the gray stone area is a compound of some sort) together with E6L8 which I likewise love to death but you could only list 3!

Ipank7000 wrote:
Least favorites:

1. E4L6 - Too many doors and It's tedious to open all that door to get everything.


This one slipped my mind... I think it's a lost opportunity. The dark ceiling and the music could call for a souping up of E4L2 (which is, again, another brilliant map) but the many doors do indeed get old very quickly. Luckily the wood panel part comes out on top, always thought it suited the dark blue ceiling color pretty good. The latter part of Episode 4 always reminded me of a bizarro version of episodes 1 and 2 in one big stew.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2016 4:03 pm
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Quote:
E2L6 is also the first level (right?) with a trick elevator.


I believe that honour goes to E1L10. The trick elevator filled with SS.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2016 4:09 pm
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Damn! Owned by the 1 & only Ronald Donald yet again! ???
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2016 4:49 pm
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Hey, that's Mr. Ronald Donald to you Razz Geek


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2016 6:16 pm
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In my version of wolf3d (Apogee v1.1a) the secret elevator to E1L10 didn't even work, so I guess E2L6 really was my first? Laughing


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2016 6:34 pm
   Subject: Re: Top 3 favorite and least favorite original maps?
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Thomas wrote:
Ipank7000 wrote:
Least favorites:

1. E4L6 - Too many doors and It's tedious to open all that door to get everything.


This one slipped my mind... I think it's a lost opportunity. The dark ceiling and the music could call for a souping up of E4L2 (which is, again, another brilliant map) but the many doors do indeed get old very quickly. Luckily the wood panel part comes out on top, always thought it suited the dark blue ceiling color pretty good. The latter part of Episode 4 always reminded me of a bizarro version of episodes 1 and 2 in one big stew.
Ah, E4L6. This had a fascinating start with a duplicate elevator that lured you into enemy fire if you didn't watch out. After that, it kind of fizzled out for me until the second half of the level. It seems to me that different sequences were in the first half originally, but those sequences didn't work, so they were replaced by whatever was in Plan B. If my guess is right, it would've been interesting to see what was in the map originally.
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