How many rooms should be in one level?
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DieHard Wolfers -> Mapping Mania

#1: How many rooms should be in one level? Author: Joshua PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 8:49 am
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I think the number of rooms for a beginning mapper should be the same number that was used in episode 1 level 1. What are other people's suggestions on how many rooms should be in a level? It mostly depends on the level itself. Boss levels have shorter rooms than enemy levels. I prefer having levels with regular bosses on them still be similar to enemy levels.

#2: Re: How many rooms should be in one level? Author: ReddimusVonAggrevatii PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 10:05 am
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There should be as many as one wants!
If I want 69 rooms in one level, then I shall have my 69 rooms in one level!

#3: Re: How many rooms should be in one level? Author: Wolf3DGuyLocation: Hungary PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 10:09 am
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Again such a serious question. You can make a map only adding a room as you said, depends on the map. My suggestion is, imagine rooms then start to create them with the editor.to prove you can make a map only 1 room, a forest map. Always think on the enemies to put them on rooms.

#4: Re: How many rooms should be in one level? Author: serpensLocation: Odrowaz PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 10:09 am
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I won't answer this directly because a "room" can mean many things. Lookie here:



This is E3M1 from ack's Acktung 2: The Last Waltz. Almost the entire grid-spanning map is, in a way, a single room, but "one room" is hardly a good description of its true complexity! I say that Wolfenstein's combination of floor codes, secrets, deaf guards and line of sight mechanics gives the mapper a surprising amount of flexibility, to the point where definitions like "a room" become sort of blurred and irrelevant.

#5: Re: How many rooms should be in one level? Author: Wolf3DGuyLocation: Hungary PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 10:13 am
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@serpens, such a great map, I never played acktung 2, but that map is really looks cool, I want so share some pic about my maps too, but that would be spoiler.

#6: Re: How many rooms should be in one level? Author: ronwolf1705 PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 10:32 am
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serpens wrote:
I say that Wolfenstein's combination of floor codes, secrets, deaf guards and line of sight mechanics gives the mapper a surprising amount of flexibility, to the point where definitions like "a room" become sort of blurred and irrelevant.


Indeed, there are quite a few variables at play, and there's no fixed amount of rooms that constitute a good map. It's the combination of all those variables that lead to a good map.

#7: How many rooms should be in one level? Author: Wolf3DGuyLocation: Hungary PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 11:28 am
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Well, if I need to spoiler then I spoiler a map of my first mod what I released, It has a big room for a start, the only thing is that, how you use the def guard floor.



It's one of my first maps I've ever created, but it isn't bad at all. Before ask, ChaosEdit uses a self made map symbols.

#8: Re: How many rooms should be in one level? Author: ChrisLocation: Canada PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 2:14 pm
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ReddimusVonAggrevatii wrote:
There should be as many as one wants!
If I want 69 rooms in one level, then I shall have my 69 rooms in one level!

There's only 64 doors though (unless you increase the limit).

#9: Re: How many rooms should be in one level? Author: Wolf3DGuyLocation: Hungary PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 2:25 pm
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Also don't forget the other limits too.

#10: Re: How many rooms should be in one level? Author: serpensLocation: Odrowaz PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 2:28 pm
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Chris wrote:
ReddimusVonAggrevatii wrote:
There should be as many as one wants!
If I want 69 rooms in one level, then I shall have my 69 rooms in one level!

There's only 64 doors though (unless you increase the limit).

Technically you don't need doors, just fill every other tile with a floor code for something like 1000 rooms! Who says you have to enter them?

#11: Re: How many rooms should be in one level? Author: Sigma64Location: Castle Wolfenstein PostPosted: Sun Jan 14, 2018 5:48 am
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"Fun" Mac Wolf3D Fact of the Day:
The Mac version had an interesting way of handling this; there were no floor codes, and sound could travel through one room to the next. If you wanted floor-code like features, like remotely alerting guards, then you would need to use a "sound sector" tile, which you would give a number, and would make noise in all rooms with the tile in it, rooms being defined as spaces enclosed by walls/doors, but not pushwalls, so each secret was by default part of the room to which it connected. However, there was a 64 room limit, so you couldn't really go that far with this feature.
This is also true for the SNES port and the Jaguar Port. However, to the best of my knowledge, no-one has made maps for these. Smile

#12: Re: How many rooms should be in one level? Author: TricobLocation: Neo-traditions, Inc. PostPosted: Sun Jan 14, 2018 6:31 am
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That's interesting. Smile It would explain the simpler layout of the levels. Now that I think about it, this "sound sector" data is probably part of an 8-bit integer on the map. That is, three bits might be used for the sound sector, and the remaining bits contain the contents of the map (both walls and objects).

Storing numerous values in one byte is nothing new for me; I did some "bit-sensitive" programming myself in a maze-making algorithm. The Public Domain maze-making algorithms I saw weren't made for simpler BASIC interpreters and/or 16K systems ... or they simply didn't create "true" mazes. So I went and made my own ... deliberately simplified so it would be easier to convert to C and other languages. The maze is constructed of squares - or cells - and only two bits are used ... you add 2 to open the path to the south, and you add 1 to open the path to the east. To check for walls to the north, you check the cell above it, while you check the west cell to find if there's a wall to the left. There's an additional 3-bit value in the cell as well, but this isn't used to draw the maze when it's finished being generated.

#13: Re: How many rooms should be in one level? Author: Adam BiserLocation: USA PostPosted: Sun Jan 14, 2018 10:44 am
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Sigma64 wrote:
"Fun" Mac Wolf3D Fact of the Day:
The Mac version had an interesting way of handling this; there were no floor codes, and sound could travel through one room to the next. If you wanted floor-code like features, like remotely alerting guards, then you would need to use a "sound sector" tile, which you would give a number, and would make noise in all rooms with the tile in it, rooms being defined as spaces enclosed by walls/doors, but not pushwalls, so each secret was by default part of the room to which it connected. However, there was a 64 room limit, so you couldn't really go that far with this feature.
This is also true for the SNES port and the Jaguar Port. However, to the best of my knowledge, no-one has made maps for these. Smile

There's no special sound sector tile code, at least not in the SNES port which to my knowledge is the same as the Mac and Jaguar as far as map data structure.

They had room codes in the wall plane which are essentially the same as floor codes. Each open tile in a room needs the same room number. Each room needs its own unique room number. The room number points to a 64-byte array at the end of the plane data which assigns the sound sector value. Giving multiple room codes the same sound sector makes them hear each other. This feels like an extra step, but it was probably a necessary due to the different rendering engine.

#14: Re: How many rooms should be in one level? Author: Sigma64Location: Castle Wolfenstein PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 12:37 pm
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Whoops, I guess that was one of the weird Mac exclusive "speacial effects". The Mac version had some cool special effects that were strangely unused, like "quarter-wall-blocks", a feature that allowed you to remove sections of a wall tile. I'm not sure how this worked, but it's was a pretty cool feature.

#15: Re: How many rooms should be in one level? Author: Adam BiserLocation: USA PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 6:21 pm
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@Sigma64: Interesting, I've never really played the Mac version.

#16: Re: How many rooms should be in one level? Author: Sigma64Location: Castle Wolfenstein PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2018 1:21 pm
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Weirdly, it didn't appear in any of the original maps, but here's a screenshot of a mod using it, Laz Rojas' "Hitler's Graveyard".

I would guess that this was a convenient bug, but it's so convenient it's hard to imagine it was an accident.


Last edited by Sigma64 on Fri Jan 19, 2018 5:33 pm; edited 1 time in total

#17: Re: How many rooms should be in one level? Author: AlumiuNLocation: Christchurch, New Zealand PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2018 2:13 pm
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It's definitely not a bug, they'd have to rewrite the renderer to implement it. It's probably not too hard to do, just adds a little complication to it.

#18: Re: How many rooms should be in one level? Author: Wolf3DGuyLocation: Hungary PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2018 2:20 pm
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I love how we move away from the main topic, it started with how many rooms should be on a level and now talking about the MAC version and a feature which is in that version, and now we heading to the coding section. Very Happy

#19: Re: How many rooms should be in one level? Author: TricobLocation: Neo-traditions, Inc. PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2018 5:21 pm
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As long as it doesn't cause any friction on anyone's end, I'm okay with it. But I do keep a more watchful eye if and when it starts to veer off-topic. Smile

#20: Re: How many rooms should be in one level? Author: Sigma64Location: Castle Wolfenstein PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2018 5:32 pm
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Sorry to veer off, but his is my last comment in the off-topic region:

I forgot about this, but the Mac version also allowed the "special effect" of making doors flush with the walls. Maybe the door thing came from the wall-block feature. Maybe it was a plan for a far better Mac version, with more features that would change the way we look at Wolf3D today. I have no idea, but it's the completion of the peculiar extra special effect triad for Mac Wolf3D, so my ramblings shall henceforth cease.

There. I'm done. Apologies!

#21: Re: How many rooms should be in one level? Author: Adam BiserLocation: USA PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2018 7:53 pm
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Topic? What? Well fine then: As many rooms as it takes and not a single room more. *Insert Monty Python and the the Holy Grail's "Three is the number of the count" skit.* Smile

(@Sigma64: Thanks for the info and the example)

#22: Re: How many rooms should be in one level? Author: ChrisLocation: Canada PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 6:07 am
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serpens wrote:
Chris wrote:
ReddimusVonAggrevatii wrote:
There should be as many as one wants!
If I want 69 rooms in one level, then I shall have my 69 rooms in one level!

There's only 64 doors though (unless you increase the limit).

Technically you don't need doors, just fill every other tile with a floor code for something like 1000 rooms! Who says you have to enter them?

Sure, in my Totengräber Community map I don't think there are any doors. There are still unique sections/areas though. Wink



DieHard Wolfers -> Mapping Mania


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