DieHard Wolfers

[Majik Monkee]

I know there's a similar thread in "Feature Fanatics", but it's not exactly the same...since there are a lot of new people here these days (this involves the "old people" too, of course), I'd like to pose this simple question: What kind of TC's would you like to see made these days? Obviously, those of you who make your own TC's may not feel like giving out your best ideas before you've had a chance to work on them, but it's nice to know which way the people who are going to be playing your projects are leaning preference wise. Do you prefer "old school" add ons that look, feel, and play like the original Wolfenstein? Or perhaps you prefer TC's that depict modern warfare or horror themes, or something to that effect. Here's your chance to say what interests you...and maybe someone will take notice and make a TC based on your preference (you never know! ) Anyway, one way or the other, I'd like to hear your thoughts.

I'll lead off. I'd like to do a classic looking Wolfenstein with no source code changes, just some graphics and weapons changes that still retain the old Wolfenstein feel. I mentioned this plot before, but here it is: After the end of WWII, some Nazis escape in a small fleet of submarines loaded with gold, in an effort to escape capture and punishment. They find refuge in South America, where a power hungry dictator is willing to hide them and support their ongoing struggle...in exchange for gold and their services. Little do they know that BJ is aware of their plot. During his infiltration missions into the Nazi strongholds, he came across the plans for "Operation Letzterschutz", which spoke of the submarines, and how the plans to re-launch the Nazi war machine were to be carried out in case of the fall of the Reich. BJ is quickly dispatched to infiltrate the headquarters of the notorious "El Presidente", and strike the finishing blow against the Nazi's once and for all.

That's my vision...actually, "The Incredible Pete" and I might wind up doing this project still (that's what "El Presidente", "La Cucarache", and "Wolfgang Eisenkreiger" were invented for). I'm hesistant to make any announcements, since it would suck if we wound up not making it after all. That's it from me...let's hear from you now!

[Mikey X]

I'm not too sure, whether a TC should be made with a slew of source code changes, with 6-10 types of enemies, and a couple new weapons, and new bosses of course. Or whether just a couple of source code changes but obtains the original feel of the original Wolfenstein.

[Martin]

That's a cool topic Majik!

Well, the sort of TC I'd really like to see should be made through Newwolf or other port, such as WinWolf - because of increased graphics, resolution and so on. Nobody created an add-on that needs a port to work, and that's a shame - it could be a really good experiment, don't you think?

Second. It should be a TC where much stuff happens. Not only walking inside the unending corridors, but also outside scenes - like in Trench Warfare or Kreml 3D. There should be a lot more action inside the game - which means ambushes on bunkers, attacks on enemy positions, and defending your own ones from hordes of enemies coming out of every bunker....

Silent night. You, and your team sits down in a small trench. It's rainy and dark. Thunders cut the black horizon. You have a horrible mood. The only light coming out is the one from the lamp and from your friend's cigarette. Everyone's checking weapons. One soldier is changing the magazine in his MP40. The second one is checking the heavy machinegun. The third one looks at his new Thompson, took from the dead body of other soldier. You notice a small light in the dark horizon. Your men are getting nervous, but excited. They turn off the lamp, and you just finished smoking your cigarette. Everyone takes their weapons.

"Get to the position!"
"Americans!"

The only thing you can hear is a gunfire. Thud-thud. Your MP-40 is repeating it's sound of death. Thud-thud... more and more bodies are falling. In the rain, in the darkness, a battle started. More and more enemy soldiers are coming out from every place they could get from. Everything's slow-motion for you. Only you, and your weapon, is now important. In a second, you hear a whistle. Next second, you can see that one of your men is bleeding. You give him a cigarette.

"Don't worry. Everything's going to be OK. You'll see Helga again."

After that, you fastly get the bullet out of his body. He screams, and looks like he doesn't have a big chance to get out of it alive. You take back your SMG... and you start to shoot again. For the brothers. For him. For the sake of Germany.

:: Martin Studios present ::

One, second, third. All are falling. Only you, and your closest friend are alive in the trench. There's more and more of them. You're getting out of ammo. Thud-thud. Show'em hell....

:: In association with Slyus Corporation ::

You see even your friend is dead. He got a headshot. You're getting frustrated with the situation. You know you won't get alive out of this mess. You grab every single bullet you can, and start shooting. More and more bullets are whistling nearer, and nearer your head. One of them is hitting your helmet. BANG! Argh.... you see Allies getting into trench. One of them is pointing his weapon at you.

"Execute."

Thud.
Fadeout.

:: > The Dark Torch < ::

(main menu showing..)

[Mikey X]

Cool story Martin. That was pretty interesting.

[thejosh]

ha ha that was pretty damn cool, I like the description of the men sitting around in the trench, while one of them admires their prize of a stolen weapon.

About the newwolf projects I was working on some 3d model (mdl) replacements but never finished, just been busy with tw and everything else. But it would be awesome to see those abilities used.

Back when I first started wolf editing I was going to make a comical tc called "Wolfenstein Bloopers" where it would be like normal wolfenstein with humorous differences, but then a while later I played chokage and realized I was outclassed in that department
However my favorite tc's are generally humorous ones, and abnormal ones that don't really follow the same constricting storylines of WW2 battles.

A while back I remember a topic about a black and white wolfenstein, which I was thinking would be cool (if done right) possibly to look like a ww2 documentary or something it would probably be interesting

And last but not least I want to see some horror tc's. Haunted house was cool but what else? I guess most don't consider wolf to be capable of scaring anyone (with anything besides it's pixellated graphics ) But I think a concentrated effort could produce an at least somewhat scary tc.

One thing I would like to see LESS of actually is all these tc's where you play as BJ, yes it carries the charm of wolfenstein but after a while it kind of bugs me for some reason.

I think quite some few have craved to play as a nazi. I mean let's face it, people get a little tired of being the good guy, and well, let's just say you won't have to crave much longer. TW1 isn't the only project I've been working on

Anyways that's just my general rant of types of tc's I'd like to see made, I'm just blabbing on I haven't slept in a while so I suppose I should end this here.

[Chris]

thejosh wrote:

Back when I first started wolf editing I was going to make a comical tc called "Wolfenstein Bloopers" where it would be like normal wolfenstein with humorous differences, but then a while later I played chokage and realized I was outclassed in that department

However my favorite tc's are generally humorous ones, and abnormal ones that don't really follow the same constricting storylines of WW2 battles.

Awwww.... screw Chokage - I want to play Wolfenstein Bloopers instead!

I'm pretty tired too, let's get some rest and maybe there'll be some more interesting posts when we come back - lol.

[Hair Machine]

TC's, in my opinion, work well in either way... There's nothing like loads of really cool new (or old!) features to make you salivate and breathe new life into the experience, while at the same time some of my favourite projects are some with few coding or graphics changes (Schabbs 2000, Acktung, Assassinate Hitler etc.). It's always good to play anything that comes out.

However, if the project is a fully fledged TC, what I admire and like most is some form of originality in terms of graphics. Sorry if I sound judgemental here, but I always find something like Spear Resurrection with totally changed graphics, nothing ripped from any other TC, makes me 'wow' more than something which pools the best of graphics people have spent ages working on and uses them. Yeah, some people can't draw... Well, it's always possible to make an add - on for just the original Wolf! Then some asshole (like me) won't criticise you for ripping people's graphics...
Taking graphics from newer games and putting them into Wolf is also interesting and cool.
And that was a great idea about the Newwolf addons! There's quite a few Doom mods that use new Source code ports like Legacy or ZDoom... So why not for Wolfenstein?!?

Right, I'm done..

[Majik Monkee]

Some folks take graphics from other programs just because...well, they like the way that enemy looks, and it hasn't appeared in a TC before. As for stuff like Doom, well, let's face it...lots of "Wolfers" became "Doomers" instead, so to be able to appreciate both in one TC not only makes for an interesting game (most of the time), but also draws back old Wolf fans by giving them new Doom to play. The same can be said of any game converted into the Wolf format. Also, some folk's PC's can't handle newer games, so it's nice to give them a chance to play with graphics from some other games they might not otherwise get to try.

As an artist, of course, I greatly appreciate new enemies and graphics done by the designer themselves (or by someone else for their project). Nothing makes a new game "new" like having cool, new stuff to look at. It's not the whole battle, but it's a big part of it for me. Of course, if your game reeks, who cares what it looks like?

[Loki]

Quote:

As an artist, of course, I greatly appreciate new enemies and graphics

In the Wolf graphic style of course.

[Majik Monkee]

Well, sure, but let's not forget the value of people's own styles as well...case in point...the enemies found in SKUNKZ...



Do they look "Wolfish"? No way...but they represent a unique style and a lot of work...which in my book means more than if they look exactly like the original Wolfenstein style. Of course, if you're TRYING to capture the Wolfenstein look, then it's all good.

[The Master]

Wowly crap, those SKUNKZ graphics looks sweet.

Anyway, I'd like to see good mods be made. I don't really care what they are, as long as they're good.

[AReyeP]

Majik Monkee wrote:

Well, sure, but let's not forget the value of people's own styles as well...case in point...the enemies found in SKUNKZ...



Do they look "Wolfish"? No way...but they represent a unique style and a lot of work...which in my book means more than if they look exactly like the original Wolfenstein style.

Holy crap Batman! Who made those images Majik? They're brilliant! They're the work of someone with artistic talent; simple type cartoon characters but of a professional standard. Love the rats Hell, they all look good!

Hmmm, back onto topic. First of all, let's clear up one thing. Let's try to use the term "mod" a little more, eh? I cringe every time I hear the term TC (TOTAL Conversion), as I feel it's used far too loosely in the Wolf community. The term "mod" is a much more accurate description for what the majority of us do. A mod can't qualify as a TC unless every single element of the game (graphics, music, sound effects, levels, name of game) is replaced. So any mod using any of the original elements of Wolf are not TC's. Likewise, mods using material imported from another game (as Wolfendoom did) are not TC's, as the content is not original. When MCS and I made Spear Resurrection, we aimed to make it as close to being a TC as possible, but it still used some elements from the original Wolf (BJ face on status bar, many modified enemies as opposed to total replacements, a few music tracks from Doom and Blake Stone, some modified bits & pieces from the unused ROTT graphics). And yep, I know - I use the term "Total Conversions" in the heading of MCS' and my website, well, technically it's there as a kind of protective measure against copyright infringement allegations. Only a few mods I've seen to date have come close to being a TC. Trench Warfare is one, but that's only going by screenshots - music and sound content come into the equation as well.

Anyway, enough of my rant about TC's etc lol! The question was "what kind of add - ons we'd like to see", well, I've said it once before, but the mod I'd love to see would be Catacomb Abyss using the Wolf engine. Mods like my Wolfendoom took an existing game's (Doom) material and incorporated it into an inferior game engine (Wolf). But Cat Abyss used older technology than Wolf, so using the Wolf engine would be a huge enhancement to the game. It'd require some coding revelations though (radar screen, changing sky colour, destructable walls etc), and someone with a LOT of patience to do the graphics, but it'd be one hell of a mod if it was done properly. And I stress, it'd have to be done properly.

@ thejosh - a mod (or TC) where you play as a nazi? I know it's not the first time this idea has been brought up by someone, but I love the idea If anyone can do the idea justice I know you can!

[Majik Monkee]

@Steve - Thanks! Well, the gray rat with the two guns and the guy in the red uniform were done by The Incredible Pete (modified from his "Jack and the Beanstalk" mod), and all the rest (also the title screen and weapons) were done by myself. The clowns are actually based on a character I've drawn by hand a lot for a comic called "Horsewhiff" about an idiot clown, so I've had lots of practice drawing him...most of the others were first-timers, though, so they were a challenge. Believe it or not, I have an easier time drawing cartoon characters and their frames from scratch than making characters that fit the look of the original Wolfenstein.

I like the Catacomb Abyss idea...I've only seen a handful of pics from the game, but it looks like it had potential...I know I'd be one of the interested parties if that game were converted "upward" to the wolf format.

I agree with what was said about the overuse of the term "TC". I actually don't like to use it myself, because the difference was explained to me when I was still working on HOS, and TOTAL is a pretty big word. I tried to change everything in HOS, but little stuff (like the sound of the pushblocks moving across the floor) remains from the original SOD, and as was mentioned before, I used material from OTHER games that weren't Wolfenstein. I went with that term for the same legal type reason as Steve did for SR...in the future, though, I plan to use the term MOD for all my projects...it may be generic, but it doesn't boast all new everything, which is a pretty big bill to fill...

[Adam Biser]

AReyeP wrote:

the mod I'd love to see would be Catacomb Abyss using the Wolf engine. (snip) But Cat Abyss used older technology than Wolf, so using the Wolf engine would be a huge enhancement to the game. It'd require some coding revelations though (radar screen, changing sky colour, destructable walls etc), and someone with a LOT of patience to do the graphics, but it'd be one hell of a mod if it was done properly. And I stress, it'd have to be done properly.

The graphics and maps would not be too hard. You can extract them with WDC, though I don't have all the map and object codes figured out. I know that there is a Catacomb-based TC in the works (which is why WDC was changed to handle those files), but I don't know if the author wants me to say anything more than that. So basically it'd just be the source code. Destructable walls shouldn't be *too* difficult. Sky color might not be that bad either. The radar screen would need a bit more time.

The maps might take some time too. They are not 64x64 (they aren't even a consistant size) and they are setup a bit different than Wolf3D. They seem to use all 3 planes, but I don't know what the 2nd plane (the object plane in Wolf) is for. The 3rd plane (unused in Wolf) is for objects. So it'd take some time and patience to "Wolfenize" the maps... I might have to add a 'plane switch' function to WDC to simplify that...

TCs, in the strictest form of the phrase, do not exist for Wolf. I don't think anyone has sat down and changed all the Adlib and PC speaker sounds or the Tile8 images (which doesn't have an editor that changes them yet, to my knowledge).

TCs I'd like to see. Hmmm, that's tough because there are a lot of good ones out there. I answered this post too quick because I saw the Catacomb stuff, so I don't really have a good on-topic response.

[Majik Monkee]

It's all good. What are the "Tile8" images? Everything visual in SKUNKZ is going to be new, and of course there will need to be all different sounds and title screens, etc. I always suspected there were elements that couldn't be changed, though. Sounds like the catacomb thing is going to be a real task for whoever does it...I still haven't ever even played the original...can't find it anywhere... oops...back to the topic, though...

[Adam Biser]

Majik Monkee wrote:

It's all good. What are the "Tile8" images?

Tile8 images are the blue border shown when debug messages pop up. There are also some letters (I think numbers, too) in there too. If you look in GFXV_WL6.H, you'll notice that a chunk is skipped after GETPSYCHEDPIC. That is the Tile8 chunk.

Anyway, yeah, back to the topic....

[Majik Monkee]

I'd like to see a mod where you are a helicopter, rather than a person...the gray ground could be cloud cover, and the walls could be building outdoor textures that could be placed in such a way as to form buildings you could "fly" around outside but not go in. The view of your gun could be a greenish "HUD" instead of a gun barrel, that told what weapon you were using, and the enemies could all be various types of flying or even ground artillery. True, this would pretty much eliminate secrets and doors, but it would till be cool if done properly. Just a crazy idea of mine...

[Majik Monkee]

Speaking of helicopters (and artwork I've done myself), I had to get this in...here's a "helicopter" I designed for one of my upcoming mods...it's called a "Gyropanzer", and is supposed to be a prototype helicopter-type vehicle the Nazis are designing...besides the pilot and some small bits and pieces I pasted in from some prototype art, the whole design is my own...I can't post the whole thing, though, because someone might steal it...

[Majik Monkee]

Hah...yeah...it very well could...that's why these days I don't post anything in entirity I don't want to see in one of his TC's days/hours later...for the most part, we've come to an understanding...he lets me know before he takes stuff...but I'm not fool enough to see how far I can push that...

[Guest]

Damn, that's a nice copter.

I'd like to see some TC's with NPC's that you can initiate some sort if interaction with. Like maybe buying things, such as ammo/guns/health. Convert the score into a money pool...

[Arielus]

A little off-topic, and following AReyeP's interesting comment...

I may be wrong, but the word 'mod' applies to anything and everything, if you ask me. Even though you modify absolutely every single aspect of the game, and no matter if it's Spear of Destiny or Wolfenstein 3-D, you are still modifying something already made, right? You are still taking an Id's product and working over it, aren't you? There is a basis where to start from...

I do think 'total conversion' means what its name says... You got a game which features no material of the product it started from, so I'd say this particular kind of mod is the 'most modified mod', so as to say it one way; anyway, however, it's still a mod, in my humble opinion. They are all mods, no matter how many changes have been made. Again: This is just my point of view...

Now that I think about it, no Spear/Wolf total conversion comes into mind right at this very moment... My memory must be failing...

[Zach]

Yeah I completely agree Ariel. I had been thinking the same thing just hadn't posted it. Spear Ressurection is a mod not a TC. B.J.'s face, the knife, the guards (even if they are assembled from parts of other guards mwahahahaha), the bosses. All based on Wolf3D graphics. Tekkoudan... that would've been a T-effin-C.

[Aryan_expirement]

I kinda get frusterated when people say that also, even tho I used to say
say TC before I figured out what it mean't exactly. Now I try to say mod, or in some case with almost no changes, I call it an add-on. It has started to become a habit knowadays...

Anywho I am getting a little of topic here. I agree w/ Sun ce: a sort of RPGish style, but one problem: anyone with enough skills to take on a project of that scale is either preoccupied or simply unmotivated.

But realistically, a good mod/addon/TC would be one with a few changes, such as new weapons, more guards, and not as a mazy .
That is what it makers me do, at least . If you were thinking I am being to vague, well I am, here: The levels should be diificult because of pure complexity, but because of brute strength in forces.


The amounts of each: 10% guards, 20% SS, 10% officers, 5% ghost hitlers, a boss every three or four levels, 15% mutants ( dogs just get boring, give it up. maybe a few on the first level, but that should wrap it up.) and 40% new sprites such as colonels (20%, which would be a combo of the SS's gun and an officers speed and agility.), super guards (15%, black uniform of the SS, and just won't @(!*^$% die!!) and Hans Grosse ( he's been used in mods so much that he should be a piece o' cake to any veteran wolfers.) but a secret passage near hans every time you come across him w/ammo and health.

Also, you should get new weapons, such as a laser charge weapon, a rocket launcher, and some kind of weapon that locks on (laser guided missile, possibly?). All of these ideas would of course would be very difficult to accomplish. Therefore, it is sort of just a way to get ideas off my chest. Thanks for starting this topic, Majik!

Of course that's just me!

[Raistlin]

Personally, I think I like horror the best.

A dark atmosphere is really what I like, something
vaguely disturbing, but not too disturbing.

Haunted house 3d, HOS, and Secrets of the Grauberg
dungions were probably my favourites.

Of course, I also like the tc's to have a bit of
humor in them, Which was why I especially liked
Haunted house.....The way it made fun of all the traditional
Horror flicks.

What kind do you like?

[sentenced]

Futuristic - particularly those in the style of Blake Stone.

Why are futuristic TCs the best? Because blasting aliens/futuristic humans and animals is a lot more fun than shooting German (notice the way that they are always German) soldiers. The WWII setting gets a little samey as TCs are continuously released with it.

[Guest]

basicly any TC I will but the ones with those rotten Pacmen in normal level, or those with a too scary of atmosphere (HOS for sure never went beyond level 3 because it was too scary.). and of course don't forget the humor. (Soul brighter and toilet humor in SR more like ummmmmmmm bah it still made me laugh).

[Guest]

My favorite type is mainly like the original, like Project Vertilgung, Castle Totenkopf and Spear Ressurection. But I'm like too of the add-ons which combine the "Wolf3d" with the horror, like Project Eisenritter.

[Majik Monkee]

My favorites are the kind that don't make any sense at all, or try something radically different, not necessarily in any given genre (if it creates it's own genre, that's a plus!). My second favorite would have to be well done WWII ones (like Operation: Heimzhalung) or ones close to that are sequels to that era (Spear Resurrection). Those are my favorite types, but that definitely doesn't mean a mod has to be in one of those categories for me to love it...often times, they're not...

[Loki]

Well, in this moment, the horror style is my favorite. I like the monsters and the ghosts and this style is compatible without problem with Wolfenstein 3d.

I like the WWII style also but it's just a most realistic version of the original style.

I don't like the futuristic style. He is too different of the original. Some things futuristics on an add-on can be good but not an entire mod.

For me, a good mix of these styles is Project Eisenriter (i'm agree with you Nemesis). The combination is perfect.

[Guest]

Metal gear
Based on the hit playstation video game series in which you play Solid Snake.

Terminator:T-800
You play a T-800 Terminator sent back in time to battle against the machines and make sure the armies of other T-800s,T-Xs,and T-1000s don't get to John in his bunker during the years of a Nuclear winter.

Defector
Your one of the Nazi's officers who realises that the allies are the good guys when your commander comes up with a weapon that'll destroy the entire world.Only you escaping Germany and reaching Russia to warn the soldiers of the threat will secure the safety of the Earth.

Those are some of my ideas,feel free to use them if you wish.
Joshua Waight