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PostPosted: Sat Sep 04, 2004 10:45 pm
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Does anybody know of any exsisting Operation Body Count mods/add-ons/TCs?
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 05, 2004 2:58 am
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No, but I do know of a Operation: Body Count TC for Wolfenstein 3-D.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 05, 2004 10:10 am
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I made a graphics patch for the shareware version several years ago. It's available on the Dome,
and on Mr. Lowe's yellow site under shareware levels (though I didn't make any levels for it).

Robocop 4 beta by Little Snabes and John Bucksnort used some of these graphics. Under TC's at
Brian's yellow site.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 08, 2004 4:12 pm
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Honestly, do you guys (everyone who has posted here) want to band together and make one? YES! Let's do it. We could be the first people to EVER modify/convert that game. While doing that, we could actually IMPROVE it as well, to the point where it would be playable. I say, why don't we REDO the game (levels/graphics) Yet keep the engine and basic story! We should change the floor/ceiling though. But YES!! Lets do what the developers should have done!!!!
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 08, 2004 7:10 pm
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ChiefRebelAngel wrote:
Honestly, do you guys (everyone who has posted here) want to band together and make one? YES! Let's do it. We could be the first people to EVER modify/convert that game. While doing that, we could actually IMPROVE it as well, to the point where it would be playable. I say, why don't we REDO the game (levels/graphics) Yet keep the engine and basic story! We should change the floor/ceiling though. But YES!! Lets do what the developers should have done!!!!


Aren't you a little busy with Helvete? Smile It's a nice idea though, I tried making an add-on a few times with WDC but I never got too far into it. It had a lot of bugs to fix and I had so little time. I'm sure it could be done...
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 09, 2004 9:38 am
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The main thing I find attractive about that idea is the friendly AI aspect and the ability to switch between team members. I won't lie...I probably wouldn't make a game that followed the OBC original plot, but I would make one where your gun actually looked like it was firing where the bullets were actually going... Confused

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 09, 2004 5:59 pm
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I like the idea of a Operation Body Count remake and I'd play it for sure. Too bad I'm neither a texture artist nor an experianced mapper for engines earlier than Doom or Dark Forces. Sad
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 10, 2004 5:16 pm
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Quote:
Aren't you a little busy with Helvete? Smile It's a nice idea though, I tried making an add-on a few times with WDC but I never got too far into it. It had a lot of bugs to fix and I had so little time. I'm sure it could be done...


I'm not saying I'd commit to this project fully right away, but I'd draw up some textures/weapons and other things, piece by piece. This could be a slower more 'part-time' thing for everyone involved, just contribute when you can, see how it evolves.
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 10, 2004 10:06 pm
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sonicyouth214 wrote:
I tried making an add-on a few times with WDC but I never got too far into it. It had a lot of bugs to fix and I had so little time. I'm sure it could be done...

If you - or anyone - tries it out again, let me know. Actually, WDC won't compile the VSWAPs correctly yet, but if there's interest, I'll get that part working. Here's the reason: instead of a VSWAP file, OBC has a GFXTILES and AUDIOMUS file. AUDIOMUS only contains the digital sounds that are normally found in the VSWAP. The funny thing is that GFXTILES also contains digital sounds, but these are the ones from the registered version of Wolf3D. So if you open it up in WDC, you may think it's messing up, but that's what the game files have. But yeah, it won't compile the "VSWAP" files yet. You can compile the MAPTEMP, AUDIOT, and VGAGRAPH files now though.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 12, 2004 10:52 pm
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ChiefRebelAngel wrote:
Honestly, do you guys (everyone who has posted here) want to band together and make one? YES! Let's do it. We could be the first people to EVER modify/convert that game. While doing that, we could actually IMPROVE it as well, to the point where it would be playable. I say, why don't we REDO the game (levels/graphics) Yet keep the engine and basic story! We should change the floor/ceiling though. But YES!! Lets do what the developers should have done!!!!


Operation: BodyCount? Maybe I was a little too enthusiastic there...

I'd still give it a shot if anyone else is game.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 13, 2004 12:29 am
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Adam Biser wrote:
The funny thing is that GFXTILES also contains digital sounds, but these are the ones from the registered version of Wolf3D.


You mean they actually left the digital sounds from Wolf3D in BodyCount ? Geez, they did throw this game together in a week... !

It'd be interesting to see what some people could do with OBC. It's not exactly the greatest game ever, but it'd be an interesting experiment to see how the game would turn out with some good material backing it this time around. I'd definitely check it out.

I don't know if I could contribute much to it, but I can give it a try.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 13, 2004 2:15 am
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I don't know how good ANYONE could make a game using the O:BC engine. I mean, if you paint a piece of crap pretty colors, it's still a piece of crap.

So, if you actually did this, and came up with something good, I would be truly surprised.

No offense to anybody, but O:BC is just a really, REALLY bad game. Compirable to the likes of "Island Peril."

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 13, 2004 4:58 am
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The engine isn't the piece of crap here...the sounds, sprites, choice of some of the enemies (giant rats, crap monsters, and gun toting hobos? Electricity shooting moths and cookie cutter terrorists?), and repetitive nature of the levels is what makes it crappy. I found a lot of the maps to actually be well designed, but the visuals are just so bad in this game, and it gets so repetetive so fast (once you beat the aweful sewer levels) that it's just not worth playing. I do see potential to redo it and redo it well, but it would take a committed team. I actually did get the feeling that the game had potential when I was playing it, but the original designers certainly didn't live up to it.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 13, 2004 6:02 am
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Well, if this is going to happen, then I'll get started on getting it to compile correctly in WDC.
It's not a difficult change, but who knows what "just a small change" can do to the code and how long it can take? Laughing

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 13, 2004 8:08 am
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If we did a remake we'd have to touch up the story as well. I haven't tried the game yet, but I'll check it out. I might be interested in helping - part-time as well if you guys come up with a good story and plan. Without a plan this is hopeless. So someone bang out an outline of what should changed in the game and what needs to be done to change that. Remember we don't need to change EVERYTHING, just the bad stuff and some of that can just be cleaned up. So where's the plan?

Edit: Well I just checked it out real quick. I think one thing to do is to scrap the weird parallaxed textured floors and ceilings for a solid color ala wolf that is just different colors at certain areas. That's one way to make it look a little better.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 13, 2004 12:36 pm
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Zero X. Diamond wrote:
I mean, if you paint a piece of crap pretty colors, it's still a piece of crap.


The bizarre thing is that I had a really, REALLY disgusting experience envolving crap not more than an hour after I said this.

We won't discuss it.

Anyways, I'm getting off topic.

I suppose it really wasn't the engine that made O:BC suck. I HAVE heard something about incredibly stupid AI in something, teammates or something to that respect. But I suppose I really should look into the game. I had it at one point, but it wouldn't run for some reason or another. Memory, actually, I believe. But I have heard a lot bad about this game.

Sorry if my comment offended anyone. Besides, just view my bad experience as getting back at me. ><

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 13, 2004 7:00 pm
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Zero X. Diamond wrote:
No offense to anybody, but O:BC is just a really, REALLY bad game. Compirable to the likes of "Island Peril."


Now you're a bit unfair. Island Peril is easily about the worst FPS I know of. And belive it or not: I enjoyed playing OBC. It's the only game so far that got me hooked with trying to improve my score (nope, I did not like Wolf3ds treasure huntin' much). Too bad I never found out how to disarm mines and always had to sacrifice team members to get rid of those lying in front of the exit...

I've heared that in the CD version (that I've been looking for for ages now) you can blow away walls and textured floor and ceiling as well as lightning levels make the engine not that bad at all. I'd really like to play it again with a bit better drawn sprites and nicer maps.

BTW: did anybody actually play this in multiplayer?

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 13, 2004 7:46 pm
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vman wrote:

BTW: did anybody actually play this in multiplayer?


I played it in multiplayer a while ago, it was actualy fun! The "arena levels"(yes they had seperate levels for multiplayer) were well-done compared to the game levels. Setting your friends on fire and hearing them burn is fun! Twisted Evil

Adam Biser wrote:

Well, if this is going to happen, then I'll get started on getting it to compile correctly in WDC.
It's not a difficult change, but who knows what "just a small change" can do to the code and how long it can take? Laughing


All right! A fully editable O:BC would be an awesome development in Wolf3D based gaming! If we're ever going to do this we need ,as Ringman said, a plan. Anybody got any ideas?
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 14, 2004 2:30 am
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Alright, I actually did get this running, and I will say that some of the features were pretty neat, but badly pulled off. (The weapons were cool, excluding the fact that firing points the gun to the left of where it's firing.) I didn't play it too much, since DOSBox doesn't emulate it fast enough, but I did poke through it in WDC. Some of the textures were actually not half bad. The enemies... well... no. Although, a lot of the bosses were pretty damn funny, like the middle easterner with the turban, or the super incredibly muscular guy whose gun shoots to the right. However, here's the big question.

WTF IS WITH THE ELVIS HEAD?

Does it appear somewhere in the game or what? And while we're at it, where does that JESUS HEAD appear in Corridor 7? Is it just me, or is there a visible pattern here? Surprised

EDIT: Oh, and whoever told me off for saying O:BC was compirable to Island Peril was right. Island Peril was still at LEAST twenty times worse.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 14, 2004 10:29 am
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vman wrote:
I've heared that in the CD version (that I've been looking for for ages now) you can blow away walls and textured floor and ceiling as well as lightning levels make the engine not that bad at all.


These features are in the full disk version, aren't they?

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 14, 2004 8:22 pm
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It's good to see you guys interested. I think the story is good enough (kill UN hating terrorists..yada), but the visual theme needs a major overhaul. The weapons must all be redone, the weapons' code functions as well (the rocket launcher). I did like the wall destruction/wall burning of the rocket explosion though. The enemies must be all discarded and redone, notice that the generic uzi carrying terrorist used the Former Human's (Doom) death animation? WHAT A DISCRACE!

No more low quality scanned bookshelfs, and sky lines. All hand drawn and original. I can start contributing stuff soon. Personally, I'd say keep it a 1 episode linear game, add multiple bosses, tex floors and ceilings etc. Would anyone have a problem with using a new color palette? O:BC's is god-awful.

Think about what could be done with multiplayer!?!? This needs to happen!
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 14, 2004 10:16 pm
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ChiefRebelAngel wrote:
It's good to see you guys interested. I think the story is good enough (kill UN hating terrorists..yada), but the visual theme needs a major overhaul. The weapons must all be redone, the weapons' code functions as well (the rocket launcher). I did like the wall destruction/wall burning of the rocket explosion though. The enemies must be all discarded and redone, notice that the generic uzi carrying terrorist used the Former Human's (Doom) death animation? WHAT A DISCRACE!

No more low quality scanned bookshelfs, and sky lines. All hand drawn and original. I can start contributing stuff soon. Personally, I'd say keep it a 1 episode linear game, add multiple bosses, tex floors and ceilings etc. Would anyone have a problem with using a new color palette? O:BC's is god-awful.

Think about what could be done with multiplayer!?!? This needs to happen!


I like those ideas! Most of the O:BC art(if you can call it that) is really bad and most of the enemies are terrible. They do have that enemy sitting on a toilet and the enemy playing dead features that are real cool. Mmm...multiplayer...that could bring out a lot of possibilities and fun. The bosses would have to be re-done too. That last boss kind of "magicaly" teleported out of the building, I mean what was that??
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 15, 2004 6:24 am
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Well unless you guys know something I don't about the OBC source code or one of you is a very talented hex editor, I think we're pretty much stuck with the engine as-is (which tosses out any plans you guys might have had about new weapons, textured floors or whatever). I suppose you could mess with the Wolfenstein source code for a few years to figure out how the OBC data files work entirely and how to get them into Wolfy's stubborn source, but I think that would be a little too much effort with not enough pay-off (this is really just a side-project for a lot of us, I think). And besides, do you know how much Belgian beer you'd have to bribe MCS with to get him to help us out ? Cheesy Grin

The way I see it, this will be primarily a new maps, graphics and sounds patch for OBC, and I think that's enough. There seem to be enough really cool features in OBC already implemented that just need to be used right (light shading, lighting effects, new weapons / enemies and tweaks, etc). As Chief said, I think the story is probably fine as is and this would be just a cosmetic tweak.

As vman said, OBC is a bad game, but it could be worse. I honestly expected a lot worse when I played it. All it needs, like many people have said, is a bit of a nip and tuck.

At any rate, I'm excited about the fact that more people are looking at editing Wolfy's spinoffs. I read here that one guy was working on a Blake Stone TC, and that's great - I'd LOVE to play more Blake add-ons, as well as C7, Catacombs, etc add-ons. Hell, I'll play an OBC game, too, if it looks good. I'll see about tossing some graphics together this week, hopefully, if people keep their interest in it.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 16, 2004 11:35 am
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Ian, your saying it would be close to impossible to add say f/c textures and a palette change? I'm not proficient in coding, but is it really that difficult? Hmmnn. Perhaps we could use the original Wolfengine, and possibly cut and paste certain features? Features like multiplayer, lighting system, maskwall/directional sprite animated doors, and perhaps the little AI helper dudes. I'm sure it's not that easy, but rather a challenge!!!
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 16, 2004 12:05 pm
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If you can find the palette in the exe, then it isn't that hard to change the palette using a hexeditor.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 16, 2004 1:51 pm
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You guys still need a solid plan! I'm not gonna go into too much detail here, because the last time I did that I was drafted as project leader. Laughing

Anyway what you need is:

Basic intro

Level 1: story and setting. What enemies are needed? What textures are needed? What boss (if there is one) are needed. What features should you utilise.

Level2: Same thing, etc.

Conclusion

You get the idea? The first OBC started out in a weird cavernous area. Maybe you want it to start out in subway system instead? Then you're going to need: Train textures, tunnel textures, railing on walls, pipes etc. Enemies would be: Hobos with knives that live in the subway system, henchmen of a terrorist group hiding out in the subway with a bomb, innocent bystanders. You get the idea. This is how your PLAN should be set up. It doesn't have to be set in stone, but if you know where your going its alot easier to get started, and more importantly to FINISH! Hope that helps. Smile Feel free to steal the starting level idea.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 17, 2004 10:34 am
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Ringman wrote:
You guys still need a solid plan!

You get the idea? The first OBC started out in a weird cavernous area. Maybe you want it to start out in subway system instead? Then you're going to need: Train textures, tunnel textures, railing on walls, pipes etc. Enemies would be: Hobos with knives that live in the subway system, henchmen of a terrorist group hiding out in the subway with a bomb, innocent bystanders. You get the idea. This is how your PLAN should be set up. It doesn't have to be set in stone, but if you know where your going its alot easier to get started, and more importantly to FINISH! Hope that helps. Smile Feel free to steal the starting level idea.


Excellent ideas Ringman, do I smell a project leader? I guess it would be a problem to modify the source, because as far as I know, a source code wasn't released...or am I wrong?
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 18, 2004 10:53 am
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ChiefRebelAngel wrote:
Excellent ideas Ringman, do I smell a project leader?


No, I do believe you are mistaken. I think you might have left your fridge door open again, Chief. You must be smelling the milk turning sour. You might wanna check on that. Smile

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 18, 2004 2:36 pm
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ChiefRebelAngel wrote:
I guess it would be a problem to modify the source, because as far as I know, a source code wasn't released...or am I wrong?


Best I know of, there is no officially released source code for OBC, Blake Stone or C7, just Wolf3D.

You probably could mess with the Wolf source and get it to read the OBC datafiles, but that's light-years ahead of my coding knowledge (dammit Jim! I'm a Tinkerer, not a Coder!). It might not be as difficult as I'm thinking, but still: You'd have to get the Wolf source to read the map, graphics and sounds, plus incorporate all the bosses, weapons, items and functions found in OBC, then toss in all the extra stuff you want (like new items, textured floors / ceilings, new enemies...). That's a lot of damn work for very little payoff, I think...

Your best bet would probably be to just extract all the OBC graphics, sprites, sounds, etc and toss them into Wolf via FloEdit or WDC and just tweak the source code as best as you can so it closely matches OBC. It wouldn't be a pure OBC TC, though, and I think that'd be a bit pointless since everyone is just going to totally remake the graphics and sounds anyway so it won't even look like OBC anymore... Bleh Razz

I still think it'd be better to just keep OBC's EXE the way it is and just give it a cosmetic tweak, that way it'd be a pure OBC TC (instead of some sort of OBC to Wolf with totally new graphics TC). I haven't looked at the palette yet, but the graphics are ugly as sin sometimes so I'm sure it wouldn't be a pleasant editing experience... Still, I'm interested in giving it a try, since I've never made graphics for any other game besides Wolf. It should be an interesting experience. If what Frenkel said is true, then someone out there could probably hex edit the palette in the EXE if we really needed it that bad.

As far as my position in this project, I want to be sure this thing will go somewhere is all... I've been in a couple group projects that sounded great but then get canceled right in the middle of things and basically I end up with a lot of wasted time and stuff that really doesn't fit other projects, and I can't afford that to happen again. If we can figure out the route this thing is going and who's doing what, that'd be great. What is everyone interested in doing, for starters ? Who wants to do maps, graphics, sounds, etc ?

-Ian
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 18, 2004 4:24 pm
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All I can say is I'll be woking on walls, sprites, characters, hud, levels, menu etc...any other artists who want to contribute are definetly welcome, infact, I'd prefer as many artisits as possible, as long as a specific guideline is followed to keep everything consistent (palette, themes, etc). I'd be nice to see multiple artist's takes on 'book shelves' or 'city scape' skyline textures. Although, if everything were too diverse, It would look like the original O:BC, a random mix of shit.
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