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Backseat Moderating - The Examples
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JackaL
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2004 1:11 am
   Subject: Re: All noobs at making mods
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how to be a diehard wolfer: every time you post about 25 messages you get a new "Rank" its nothing special just a little thing or whatnot.
1 bullet = guest, no posts
1 bullet = member, at least 1 post
2 bullets = can i play daddy?, at least 25 posts
3 bullets = dont hurt me, at least 50 posts
4 bullets = bring it on, at least 75 posts
5 bullets = im death incarnate, at least 100 posts
5 bullets = diehard wolfer, at least 150 posts
i was so happy when i reached a new level!!! Cool
Zombie_Plan
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2004 4:23 am
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Thanks for informing me.

Once we get started with making this mod will you assist us with tips when advice when we get stuck and need help?

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2004 4:40 am
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I'm sure the whole community will be able to help you guys out. This place is usually "newbie" friendly. Just don't spam everywhere and be sure to post / ask questions in the appropriate sections, and we won't snarl at you... Much Smile Well, I might bite your legs off for fun, but that only means I like you...

JackaL wrote:
every time you post about 25 messages you get a new "Rank"


... And if you reach 10,000 posts, you become a moderator here! Razz Ok ok, I'll stop lying to the newbies... lol Wink

-Ian

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2004 11:00 am
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"Ian Franken da vida, baby."


Wow....that makes me feel 34 again!!

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2004 2:26 pm
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_Fr0nti3r_ wrote:
Yo this is Fr0nti3r just sighned up and readen tutorials yay for my newbie status Too Cool


Yes, and your are breaking one of the rules of the forums... Which of the two identities would you like to keep "DeathsHead" or this one.....

Greg
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2004 2:59 pm
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JackaL wrote:
how to be a diehard wolfer: every time you post about 25 messages you get a new "Rank" its nothing special just a little thing or whatnot.
1 bullet = guest, no posts
1 bullet = member, at least 1 post
2 bullets = can i play daddy?, at least 25 posts
3 bullets = dont hurt me, at least 50 posts
4 bullets = bring it on, at least 75 posts
5 bullets = im death incarnate, at least 100 posts
5 bullets = diehard wolfer, at least 150 posts
i was so happy when i reached a new level!!! Cool


Ouch, one mistake.

T3h R4nkz P4g3! wrote:
0 bullets = guest, no posts
1 bullet = member, at least 1 post
2 bullets = can i play daddy?, at least 25 posts
3 bullets = dont hurt me, at least 50 posts
4 bullets = bring it on, at least 75 posts
5 bullets = im death incarnate, at least 100 posts
5 bullets = diehard wolfer, at least 150 posts
ZuljinRaynor
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2004 3:00 pm
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BrotherTank wrote:
_Fr0nti3r_ wrote:
Yo this is Fr0nti3r just sighned up and readen tutorials yay for my newbie status Too Cool


Yes, and your are breaking one of the rules of the forums... Which of the two identities would you like to keep "DeathsHead" or this one.....

Greg
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Are you sure they are one person? IP can differ you know. There can be two users networking and using one IP. Like me, 'cept my brother isn't registered here. Internet IP -> Router -> Computer IPs

Sorry for double-posting.
JackaL
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2004 7:43 pm
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yeah, but im sure when you sign up and have a name and havn't made a post yet, you still have 1 bullet. i thought that was only for guests, i dunno, i think my memorys foggy Think
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2004 8:08 pm
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fr0nti3r is not me.

It is a friend from my school. Check the profile if you don't believe me

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2004 8:23 pm
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@ Allen: If you talk to fr0nti3r, he might give you his. We were considering not having one, just a compilation mod.
@ Brother_Tank: We both signed up on the school network; would that be the reason you think we are the same person?

And we don't even have a name for it yet. Any suggestions?

Still looking for more people to help make it...

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2004 8:37 pm
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@Jackal: Stop with the ranks crap. That is the whole reason we removed them before. It's about quality posts NOT QUANTITY. If you care more about the numbers then you aren't concerned about the community and the quality.

@Deathshead: Strange I guess the friend signed up from your system or the friend uses your system to log in? Smile I won't give away all the ways the Admin have to find those that break the rules, but both you and the other were logged in at the same time via the same IP... Should I do some more digging?

@everyone else (including the Mod) back to topic. This is about New People to the Wolfenstein scene making a mod together.

Greg
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2004 8:50 pm
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Deathshead wrote:
Thanks you.

Maud'Diub will also join on the same network as me.

And with the mod. We could still have more people. More the merrier. So far:

Deathshead
fr0nti3r
Maud'Diub
Josh594
Razy


If I find out and can prove that any or all of these people are the same person - You will ALL loose privilages to the forums. You do understand that right? The rules state clearly, 1 Person = 1 account.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2004 9:09 pm
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ZuljinRaynor wrote:
BrotherTank wrote:
_Fr0nti3r_ wrote:
Yo this is Fr0nti3r just sighned up and readen tutorials yay for my newbie status Too Cool


Yes, and your are breaking one of the rules of the forums... Which of the two identities would you like to keep "DeathsHead" or this one.....

Greg
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Are you sure they are one person? IP can differ you know. There can be two users networking and using one IP. Like me, 'cept my brother isn't registered here. Internet IP -> Router -> Computer IPs

Sorry for double-posting.


I am well aware of that Zuljin... But I guess you know more about the forums and security around here... Now what was it that I said recently to "Howling Wolf".... Let the Admin and Moderators Moderate... I suggest that you might want to re-read the rules yourself to make sure that you understand them.

When I ask a person something about the security I don't need someone questioning what I am doing or why I am asking them about it. They have already partly hung themselves, which is why I asked. Anyhow... Back to the topic. This stuff can be deleted from the thread in 5 days.

Greg
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JackaL
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2004 10:36 pm
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BrotherTank wrote:
@Jackal: Stop with the ranks crap. That is the whole reason we removed them before. It's about quality posts NOT QUANTITY. If you care more about the numbers then you aren't concerned about the community and the quality.


hey dude, someone asked a question and I was simply answering, but I ain't going to get smart to you because your a moderator or whatever. i don't even remember going on this ... much about bloody ranks anyhow. But I'll stop. I understand that they dont mean jack, but I always thought it would be cool to have 5 bullets. ok I'm gonna stop..... I apologize for appalling behaviour
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2004 10:53 pm
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JackaL wrote:
BrotherTank wrote:
@Jackal: Stop with the ranks crap. That is the whole reason we removed them before. It's about quality posts NOT QUANTITY. If you care more about the numbers then you aren't concerned about the community and the quality.


hey dude, someone asked a question and I was simply answering, but I ain't going to get smart to you because your a moderator or whatever. i don't even remember going on this ... much about bloody ranks anyhow. But I'll stop. I understand that they dont mean jack, but I always thought it would be cool to have 5 bullets. ok I'm gonna stop..... I apologize for appalling behaviour


Yes, and you assumed Ranks... Everyone here is a DieHard Wolfer... A member of the community. There is also a DieHard Wolfers group in the groups which anyone can join and become. But I'm glad that you so wisely pointed out that my response was wrong and aren't going to get smart about it.... Got it... I take it that was sarcasm towards "Hey Dude" - me?

When I post something like that, smart remarks and the like are not appropriate. The whole point of that post is BACK to TOPIC. So no need to respond to this and please everyone Back to Topic in this thread!

Greg
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2004 5:28 am
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Well, um I don't mean to cause a fight and reply despite the fact that you asked us not to, but I really think that this was uncalled for BrotherTank Arrow Down


BrotherTank wrote:
@Jackal: Stop with the ranks crap. That is the whole reason we removed them before. It's about quality posts NOT QUANTITY. If you care more about the numbers then you aren't concerned about the community and the quality.


I know you mean well, and I respect you as a moderator, but a statement like this is very hostile and eggs on a negative reply. I would prefer it if you would use tact, like you normally use without having to resort to harsh language and a negative attitude. I know I have done so as a member, but the importance of you being a moderator is not only to monitor, but to SET AN EXAMPLE. You do not need to act with an attitude to moderate and discipline. It is important to be as polite as possible even when reprimanding someone so you do not aggrivate the situation.

I'm not sure what your reply to this will be or what your opinion will be of me afterwards, but I think it was important to be said. I am disappointed in you.

Back to Topic.

What is the theme of this noob mod? Are you going to make a full TOTAL CONVERSION, or just a partial one? Do you plan any new features?

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2004 9:50 am
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Quote:
Well, um I don't mean to cause a fight and reply despite the fact that you asked us not to, but I really think that this was uncalled for BrotherTank


Then follow my words to both "Howling Wolf" and "ZuljinRaynor"....

Please leave the moderating to the moderators/admin. The rules of the forum don't state that the moderation should be up for discussion or be questioned each time a decision is made. In fact, it says quite the opposite.

As the rules state:

Quote:
Basic Rules

B. Members are asked to not act as "back seat moderators". Please leave the moderating to the moderators of these forums. If members note an issue which contravenes something in this policy document they are welcome to bring it to the attention of a Moderator by using a PM (Private Message). Only do this if a moderator has not replied within 6 hours. Members who consistenly "act" as moderators may be warned.



Again, I understand that I was hard... But I had my reasons at that time. Again, I shouldn't have to explain myself to other members about why I do each and every thing that I do. Again, Jackal Assumed Ranks. Look at all of Jackal's Posts for quality and reguard for the rules of this forum. If you respect me as a moderator, please let me do my job and understand that there are reasons why I do the things I do. And again, I don't get mad at people... I get mad at situations and the actions of people that bring us to those situations.

And seeing as this is not a moderating thread.... please, as I said "Back to Topic".

Greg
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2004 12:04 pm
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I was not back-seat moderating for all I did was say something about IPs. I was only saying that IPs can mean nothing. Unless sharing knoweldge of obvious is moderating then well, I'll stop helping. It was not stating that there is a flaw to your method, all I stated was that what you are saying can be wrong. Obviously the tone of voice and gestures cannot be seen on a forum so you maybe misinterpretting what I am saying. Sorry for any trouble and I will attempt to stop this.

END OF THIS SO-CALLED BACK-SEAT MODERATING!


Last edited by ZuljinRaynor on Tue Oct 19, 2004 1:40 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2004 1:37 pm
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[OFF-TOPIC]

@BrotherTank: I already back off, so I will not do this like in Speak to Us section.

@ZuljinRaynor: Better way is BACK-OFF, so don't let BrotherTank getting pissed at members and let him do it for himself.

One thing I don't let this DHW forum to bring it's kneel and closed forever, Let ADMIN & MODs doing their work on this forum for themselves without any problems..... Cheesy Grin

Like I did in Speak to Us section which I called my username in backward.. So you need to leave them alone.. Wink

[PLEASE BACK TO TOPIC Exclamation ]
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2004 1:54 pm
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ZuljinRaynor wrote:
I was not back-seat moderating for all I did was say something about IPs. I was only saying that IPs can mean nothing. Unless sharing knoweldge of obvious is moderating then well, I'll stop helping.


Exactly.... You said xx about IP's. Did I ask you to? Do you think that after many years of working with computers and networks that I was unaware of that fact. Did it ever cross your mind that all I did was ask and that I know what I am doing? Did it cross your mind that sometimes people will just give up the information when you do ask?

Probably Not. That is why I say leave the moderating to the moderators.

ZuljinRaynor wrote:
It was not stating that there is a flaw to your method, all I stated was that what you are saying can be wrong. Obviously the tone of voice and gestures cannot be seen on a forum so you maybe misinterpretting what I am saying. Sorry for any trouble and I will attempt to stop this.


That's all I asked... and for everyone to stick to the topic. I don't need people to explain their actions any more than I should have to explain mine... unless it is asked of them. The only person who should have been responding to that was "Deathshead" and that person alone as I asked him to explain his actions.

Greg
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2004 2:02 pm
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<Howling Wolf> wrote:
[OFF-TOPIC]

@BrotherTank: I already back off, so I will not do this like in Speak to Us section.

@ZuljinRaynor: Better way is BACK-OFF, so don't let BrotherTank getting pissed at members and let him do it for himself.

One thing I don't let this DHW forum to bring it's kneel and closed forever, Let ADMIN & MODs doing their work on this forum for themselves without any problems..... Cheesy Grin

Like I did in Speak to Us section which I called my username in backward.. So you need to leave them alone.. Wink

[PLEASE BACK TO TOPIC Exclamation ]


See Howling.... you just couldn't let it be. By saying what you did to Zuljin, you are again backseat moderating. I used your name as a reference to the people that I had already said please Stop Backseat Moderating. By using your name I wasn't asking for you to add your two cents to the fray. I was using it as an example so that people didn't think they were being picked on... and so that you would understand that I am not just picking on you when I said that the last time in the Speak to Us section.

When I am asking someone to follow the rules, there is no reason for you to step in and say things like:

Quote:
@ZuljinRaynor: Better way is BACK-OFF, so don't let BrotherTank getting pissed at members and let him do it for himself.

One thing I don't let this DHW forum to bring it's kneel and closed forever, Let ADMIN & MODs doing their work on this forum for themselves without any problems..... Cheesy Grin

Like I did in Speak to Us section which I called my username in backward.. So you need to leave them alone.. Wink


Instead, stand back... take a deep breath... and smile at the fact that you aren't the only one who does this.

Greg
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2004 2:08 pm
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Okay, fine. Did it cross my mind? No. Did I know you know this stuff? Yes. Did I think about it then? No. As much as I like following the rules and have people follow them as well, it is hard to on the Internet and Forums. Could I make another id a pose as my brother? Sure. Will I? No. You're the admin and it is your job to enforce the rules. But you are too busy to go moderate here all the time. But do the moderators moderate efficiently? For the most part yes. But on some occasion they don't. I just think you get on people's backs too much. You may be tired/stressed/in a bad mood. I understand. We all have bad days.

But this really is the annoying thing people say, "I didn't ask you." This means two things, I can respond or I don't need to. It just make no sense to say I didn't ask you when all you are saying is that the question didn't involve you but then you can answer for you have the right as a human being.

Once again, sorry for everything and I will attempt to change the way I respond. Punish me however you like for this offense I have just done. Sorry once again.



*Takes a deep breath*
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2004 2:35 pm
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I'd like to apologize as well for my little speech in the noobs mod topic, I was just suprised to see you getting angry and crticizing jackal for ignorance. I was thinking to myself: did he actually write that? I mean not everyone is going to agree with me, but crap is still considered an offensive word by people, especially when used in a negative light. That's what bugged me the most. I have been guilty of using much more offensive language than that, but it shocked me to see a moderator not only loose their cool, but reply with even a remotely offensive word.

I am not trying to accuse you of anything, or tell you that you made a BIG mistake. I just thought you lost your cool, and I can understand that, especially with the daily events of people asking the same things, or making the same mistakes. Please take no offense, I just feel that Jackal was innocent out of ignorance of what he was saying. I did not mean to undermine your authority, but I do believe that a person to admit a mistake or apologize for a quick harsh comment exemplifies their ability as a leader.

Sorry, I hope I didn't offend you. I hope you continue to be a good moderator and not give up on annoying badgering people like us. Cheesy Grin Good luck.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2004 2:35 pm
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Once again, I guess I have to explain my actions. I'm pissed at the situation.

To All:

Moderators use various methods to track multiple users. On this occassion 2 people were logged on via the same IP at the same time. I am, as are all the other mods, aware that this can be due to:

  
1. a network with multiple users.
  
2. a user with 2 windows open on the same computer.

When we question people (and by saying this I am now rendering that option useless) we are asking the person doing it to explain themselves. In some cases, the person will just admit that it is a double account. In other cases, the person will explain about a network or some other excuse. Based on those answers, we the admin, can decide if further inquiry is required or not.

From there we can do things like search the profile via the mailhost service that most people use (ie Yahoo, Hotmail etc... ) and again check out their story. We can run traces on IP's and even question the host for more information should it be required.

There are many ways for admins of forums and hosts to track information. MCS gets an even more detailed access log to this site than I do. From time to time he will ask me if I have noticed something or am watching things. That is part of our job. To make sure that things are secure.

We aren't asking for others to:

  
1. Give their input.
  
2. Come up with a theory.
  
3. Give the person we asked an explanation (indirectly) by telling us possible reasons.

That is why we ask people to follow the rules of the forum. Let one voice be heard (that is MCS's thing with me... He see's things and points them out to me and I then have the task of being the voice to the community)...

I am not trying to be a hardass about this. I am asking that people stop interfering with the moderation of the forums. As the rules clearly state and I will quote it again:

Quote:
Basic Rules

B
. Members are asked to not act as "back seat moderators". Please leave the moderating to the moderators of these forums. If members note an issue which contravenes something in this policy document they are welcome to bring it to the attention of a Moderator by using a PM (Private Message). Only do this if a moderator has not replied within 6 hours. Members who consistenly "act" as moderators may be warned.


If you have a question about the moderation it clearly states above to PM or Private Message the moderator/admin who is moderating the situation. When you question the actions of a moderator/admin in public (as in this case), you remove or reduce the effectiveness of the person doing the moderating. If the moderator deems that the subject should be an open discussion and the two people agree, it should then be made it's own topic in this "Latest News & Forum Rules" section of the board.

Why was I pissed at this situation? Because in the last week, I have been tracking 3 pairs of such people trying to beat the system. Of the new users signing up, I have been getting on average 1 false email for every 3 that sign up. Then people sign up again, giving correct information the second time. Then there are those who just activate a mail address to complete the signup process and deactivate it afterwards.

It's getting out of hand and as a moderator/admin it is my job to make sure that it doesn't.
Anyhow... now that the secrets are out, I hope it has answered your questions and made you feel better.

Greg
BrotherTank
Forums Admin

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2004 2:52 pm
   Subject: Re: Backseat Moderating - The Examples
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I feel better now. Thanks for listening. Good luck with tracking down the ip culprits and I hope we don't drive you to a drinking binge! Cheers! Beer

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2004 3:06 pm
   Subject: Re: Backseat Moderating - The Examples
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BrotherTank wrote:
Because in the last week, I have been tracking 3 pairs of such people trying to beat the system. Of the new users signing up, I have been getting on average 1 false email for every 3 that sign up. Then people sign up again, giving correct information the second time. Then there are those who just activate a mail address to complete the signup process and deactivate it afterwards.

Is there anyway to automate such tasks?
ie:
- No login for 3 months, deactivate/delete user.
- The system checks email addresses every week (for instance) and deactivates/deletes users with invalid email addresses. Is it possible to detect the presence of an email address without actually emailing it? I'm guessing no... so this might not be an option
- Monthly account confirmation emails that the user can ignore, but if they bounce, deactivate/delete the user
- The system notes a repeated IP and sends you a "red flag" email to notify you of the situation.

Anyway, not trying to barge in on this thing. I'm just thinking of ideas that might help rid you of some tedious tasks.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2004 3:34 pm
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Ugh... What a soap opera I missed this morning What? Good luck with dealing with those "sign-ups", Greg... No wonder you've had a migraine...

Ringman wrote:
... I hope we don't drive you to a drinking binge!


I just bought a new bottle of booze myself today... *passes the bottle off to Greg* I think we could all use a drink Smile

...Now let's just hope noone jumps on my moderating skills because I might have offered booze to someone under the legal age limit...! Laughing

-Ian
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2004 4:08 pm
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I'll take a shot of that.

Brother Tank knows my dirty secrets, like the fact that I edit almost every post I make. I'm not the most 'attentive' speller. He sees me. He knows what I do.

Brother Tank, you are responsible for my excessive smoking addiction. I smoke cigarette after cigarette. I shake and tremble. Very little sleep. You know that I'm online at least 17 hours of the day. I'm not obsessed dude, not obsessive. Nope. I don't think about everything ....EVERYTHING you know, about my spelling and grammar.



Should I call you BIG Brother Tank? Shocked

(the steel barrel scrapes my back molar as I insert the the rubber gripped Tarus 357. magnum into the back of my throat...)
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2004 6:20 pm
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[ Pulls up rusty chair, sits next to Chief. ]

So, what exactly does this have to do with you?
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2004 6:30 pm
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The intent was to inject some humor into an other wise nitpicky thread. It seems as if my intention has backfired, and now I'm in the midst of a nitpick session myself.

Funny, this thread has nothing do with you either. Yet you involved yourself, not for the purpose of lightening the air a bit, but to perpetuate the bickering.

(Slowly takes .357 out of mouth...points it towards occupant of said rusty chair)
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