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wtf?
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Barry
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 24, 2016 8:44 pm
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I disagree that making good Wolf3D levels is that easy. While it is much less complex compared to many modern shooters, there is still an art to it. Things such as balance, difficulty, creating interesting environments, level flow, and progression aren't easy to get just right. Looking back at my earlier sets, such as The Lost Fortress and Domination I can see that I had the basics down but I don't really consider them good mapsets. Wolf3D_60, my first set, was pretty awful.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2016 2:41 am
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Anyone can draw, but not everyone is good at drawing, it takes year to get somewhere decent and most people never ever reach decent (I'd even try exorcism for my case). Smile
This is why I say Wolfenstein engine is really good because it takes a while to master and it doesn't take a huge team to make any decent game.
The same thing can be said for Rpgmaker (it takes even less skill to start), but you can really do anything you like.
Take a recent commercial game, it takes a week for an experienced team to make just one small cinematic sequence.
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2016 3:53 am
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It's certainly easier getting a good start. MapEdit especially is quite easy to maneuver in. Also, an old editor for an old game makes the most sense. Mastering designs and ideas take a while, though. But it's quite ideal if you're not that experienced with the technical side of things. I remember some friends of mine taking a stab at MapEdit once way back, and it turned out pretty well compared to them only having played games before that.
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2016 4:46 am
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I find that it's often easier to have an idea work in Wolf before I give up on it because it's so easy to massively refactor a section that doesn't flow as well or look as good as you'd like it to. The map "Network Omega" that I contributed to the Lost Episodes set went through about four different iterations of both the warehouse and boss areas, including playtesting, in the space of about three hours. You may lose the ability to make really complex stuff with it, but ultimately that's not what it's about. If you can make it feel good to play and good to look at, that's all that matters.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2017 3:14 am
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Yes, modding is big part of keeping this alive, not only being a fan and liking a retro look. We woudn't be as big a community without modding, just by comparing classic level scores.
Though "SplitWolf" makes twist on classic levels as well.

I can't imagine retro game that is too pixellated or old for me to want to mod. I like pixellation and retro style arcade feel and gameplay. And as modding goes, the harder are coding/art limits of the engine, the more interesting and challenging it looks for me to make some "experience"/"adventure"/atmosphere" out of it.
I have alot of DOS beloved games...too long to list (and NES games favorites list is large as well)...worthy mentions are "Commander Keen", "Lotus III Ultimate Challenge" (best racing game ever)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qs43YwfGs1k

, "Rise of the Triad", "Sharkey's House of Pool",
"European Championship 1992" (best soccer game ever, beats any modern and old sport game by gameplay)...and many others...really many.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WTfjh2KypMc


But modding-wise it's even hard to remember for me what were the first games I tried to alter...probably "Scorched Earth" (new tank lines, later donated to 3D remake of it), "Bomberman" (new themes and character animations), "Duke Nukem 3D" (Con files) and "Supaplex" (manually build levels) and "Worms" (new themes). Modding spirit was always there. Maybe there were more I can't remember.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2017 1:32 pm
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Lotus III kicks ass! Haven't heard about it in ages.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2017 3:51 pm
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Max - I'll make an educated guess and say that Lode Runner got you interested in modding games. That game *does* have a level editor, and the game was released on numerous home computers. Smile Its release date was 1983.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2017 4:59 pm
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There is something special about these older games, and I rather like the pixelation. I don't play a lot of modern games, except for Portal or Left 4 Dead 1 and 2. I don't know if many here share the same sentiment, but I personally feel a lot of modern games have lost their "magic" and "feel"; too much focus is put forth on killer graphics than gameplay. How many times are they going to rehash Call of Duty? Battlefield? Same games with improved graphics that lack substance.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2017 5:49 pm
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TheTalentedMrLeo wrote:
There is something special about these older games, and I rather like the pixelation. I don't play a lot of modern games, except for Portal or Left 4 Dead 1 and 2. I don't know if many here share the same sentiment, but I personally feel a lot of modern games have lost their "magic" and "feel"; too much focus is put forth on killer graphics than gameplay. How many times are they going to rehash Call of Duty? Battlefield? Same games with improved graphics that lack substance.


I completely agree with this. A lot of them are more like interactive movies than actual games. Plus, usually today the single player is always half-arsed in favor of online multiplayer, which lets be honest, has simply been re-skinning "Counter-Strike" with better graphics and a few new player abilities since the early 2000s.

There are a few gems though today. I personally liked the new Doom 2016 and Wolfenstein the Old Blood. They are a little older but games like Skyrim, Bioshock Infinite, and Amnesia The Dark Descent are definitely good to play. The thing is with those games is they actually put a lot of effort and time into developing a quality single player experience.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2017 3:33 pm
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TheTalentedMrLeo wrote:
I don't know if many here share the same sentiment, but I personally feel a lot of modern games have lost their "magic" and "feel"...


Personally I believe it has something to do with growing up and getting older. I have never gotten into a new game as such after passing the age of 13 or 14. Everything I've played has either been original or mods of Doom, Wolfenstein 3-D, Return to Castle Wolfenstein, Unreal Tournament etc... All of which I played in formative stages (ages 8-13) And every game I look up that came out before all of these - such as Lotus III (which is a rare game I actually recall playing) - immediately comes swimming back to me. I don't know. Don't know if you guys feel the same way. It's just in terms of games, and I feel the same way about comics which I used to love, ever since crossing whichever line that happens at age 13 or 14, I just can't get into it anymore. Doesn't capture me.

But I look at all the games from the same era I never played (Quake, Duke Nukem etc.) and immediately want to play them. I think they look cool and interesting. This does not happen with Call of Duty etc.

EDIT: Not super true, got into GTA III & IV when I was about 17 or 18 but I recall having played something similar, or maybe indeed even those games, at age 13 or something. You know it's beginning to suck when your memory plays tricks on you.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2017 1:48 am
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Tricob wrote:
Max - I'll make an educated guess and say that Lode Runner got you interested in modding games. That game *does* have a level editor, and the game was released on numerous home computers. Smile Its release date was 1983.

Load Runner was a NES game I played.
Some NES games had editors, don't remember if I used them...I might have.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2017 7:51 am
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Excitebike had a built-in track editor, I believe.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2017 11:13 am
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Lotus III <3
There was also Lamborghini American Challenge that featured the 2 players carrier mode!

PS: when I first saw your screenshot I thought you made a racing mod for Wolf3D Cool Laughing
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2017 1:06 am
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fraggeur wrote:
PS: when I first saw your screenshot I thought you made a racing mod for Wolf3D Cool Laughing

My long-time dream to make a remake of it (with some advancements), on Wolf3D or not...
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 7:13 pm
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confused wrote:
This site is a joke right?

Ppl moding wolf3d and its source engine... dudes wolf 3d was out of date 8 years ago! Its ok to be a fan of something, but this is just sad! On your FAQ page it lists wolf3d's required system spec, if your looking at this website then you could run Wolf3d 30 times at once. Why are you working on such an old abandon game, If you wish to mod, go hl2 or Farcry.. even half life 1 can be modded by a 5 year old. I realy mean not to insult you. But i sent this link to my mates, and there reaction was "lmao, lol, rofl" they could not understand it.

Some of you seem like smart coders, move on to a game thats worth the time. Lets face it, my mobile phone could run better games then Wolf3d. its 2005 come on! Shocked


I realize this was from 2005 but goddamn that guy was rude as hell, just because it's old it's not suppose to be modified anymore? Coming in to shoot down one's relatively innocent hobby for an already small community and telling them to mod a more recent game instead because 'a five-year-old could do it' is the pinnacle of dick-headed behavior. I do like that he completely ignores Doom though, another popularly modded game that came out an entire year after Wolf3D did but Doom gets a free pass I guess?

And sadly, this sort of mentality continues as of a thread on Steam I saw today: http://steamcommunity.com/app/2270/discussions/0/142261352654374396/

His logic however seems to imply that games like this are sacred and should be left alone, lol. Okay, guess I better stop mapping for it then! Laughing

I'm glad places and communities like this exist for these kinds of games still because it goes to show even if it's old it can still be incredibly inspirational not to mention still plain fun to play.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 8:30 am
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A lot of people still seem to have this newer = better mentality. I personally find most modern shooters less fun than classic ones like Wolfenstein, Doom, etc. There are a few exceptions, like BioShock Infinite, Wolfenstein TNO/TOB, and Doom 2016, but most modern shooters leave a lot to be desired in my experience. Around 2007 or so when everything switched to online multiplayer with a focus on consoles rather than PC, my interest in modern shooters began to drop off. Call of Duty and Battlefield just don't have the same addictive feel to me that older shooters do. I also don't like how today, you have to pay $60 for a maybe 10 hour, generic campaign, and to get any of the cool features you have to pay extra for DLCs.

I love these videos as they draw attention to what is wrong with modern shooters.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C4yIxUOWrtw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NURfvG0lfpA

He also seems to think the reason people mod Wolfenstein is because they have old hardware that can't run modern games. I have a relatively recent gaming PC that can max out Doom 2016 at 1080p, but I still enjoy Wolf3D.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 9:17 am
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Ageism is a terrible thing, and should never be a deciding factor on whether a game is good or not. Personally, I believe it's all about gameplay, and I am very selective about the games I chose and choose to buy. Regardless of the fact that Wolf3d has limited A.I. and graphically primitive, there is an atmosphere to the game that I find appealing, and replayable, though predictable. True, a five-year-old could throw together a mod, but that is applicable to practically every game. I believe Wolf3d's limitations are what forces you to be critical, constructive, and clever to pull-off a truly great mod.
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