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Map of the month club?
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Map of the month club - good idea?
Yes
93%
 93%  [ 15 ]
No
6%
 6%  [ 1 ]
Voted : 16
Total Votes : 16

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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2007 4:05 am
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I was saddened to see BrotherTank's Map of the Month club idea end up locked in the archives. Some of us don't have much free time these days and the idea of contributing a map here and there is appealing as it's something most of us should easily be able to find time for.

I personally was quite excited by the new exe BrotherTank had on offer. It gave a range of new exciting features that would add interest to the otherwise classic original and prevents the whole idea from just winding up as another new mapset collection. I know BrotherTank is going through a difficult time health wise and so any work he has put into such an exe is something to be greatly appreciated and I'd like to thank him for this.

I'd like to see a map of the month club though. I think it's a great idea. Please let me know your own thoughts on it all - not just a yes or no in favour, but also whether you'd like it to be using the original Wolf or Spear, a modified Wolf exe as BrotherTank suggested (my preference as it's something unique - we can add new graphics if people think this would help), or an existing mod made by someone.
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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2007 4:38 am
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This idea is excellent and I allready started making my submission. All I wanted it to be closer to the original, but I'd really love to see the map defined stuff there in the exe.

Now I really feel bad, because I think I killed the project...

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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2007 5:20 am
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I think it is a great idea, and that it should stay close to the original, otherwise it might be too confusing to some. I've already started on my submission! Smile
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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2007 6:03 am
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I'd also like it to be close to the original wolf. Most of those features are completely useless atleast for me.

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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2007 8:29 am
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ack wrote:
Working with new stuff, whether it be co-workers, a new EXE, graphics, or what have you, is always a good thing in my mind. It broadens your horizons, gives new perspective and will make almost anyone a better modder.


Yes, and it also creates an advantage to those more experienced in mapping. I admit this is more fun and games than actual competition, but it would be more fair that way.

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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2007 9:57 am
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I think that this is a good idea as a whole. I not only can let the good mappers show off their best, but also can help the newer, less experienced mapper a chance to experiment and see what other people do. It will help them get ideas and help them.
I vote a YES to start this project.

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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2007 3:54 pm
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I think the concept was supposed to be simple, easy, and quick, so I guess I can see how it's frustrating to see people so indecisive about it. Reminds me some of WarioWare... at first, when I saw that the B and shoulder buttons wouldn't be used (in the first GBA game, that is) I was like "Oh come on! That's more buttons you can use for cooler minigames!" After a while I finally grasped the concept of the game; quick, simple, pick it up and go. It's something anybody can do, yet the depth is near-infinite, and I think anybody who's played the WarioWare games can agree. That's the way I think a map of the month club/contest/hoopaloolaza should be done. Here's your engine, now make a map. "But but-" "NO BUTS! IT'S NOT HARD, FOLKS!"

I'm not saying that all contests should be so cut and dry, but this type of contest seems like it's designed to be simple and therefore easily achievable, like the mod in a week contest (but we won't go there). Maybe we could rotate engines to keep the contest fresh? Nothing huge, but maybe a minor tweak every now and then like swapping out all the weapons for other weapons that have to be used strategically due to unique effects, or maybe just added "instructive floor codes" for enemies that can assign orders like "be deaf and wait here with your gun ready to fire at the player when he enters your sight" or "have better aim". Maybe that's just complicating things even further (making me the pot in the famous "pot calling the kettle black" cliché), but I'm in a creative mood so I'm just spouting off ideas for the far, far future.

Okay I'm done talking. I forget what I was going to say originally. I'm sure I'll still find a way not to have enough time in a month to get a map done, but that's just me and my shitty time management. I'm working on it, really.

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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2007 4:29 pm
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I thought this was a brilliant idea and I too have already started my submission.

I think that this is an open option to submit if you want. Each month look at the exe thats offered, if you don't like it then don't submit that month, wait until another month that has an exe you would like to map with or even offer a up an exe yourself for one of the months. I just don't see how this has become so complicated, why can't things like this be simple?

If it was up to me I would have different options in the exe but it's not, the only thing that's up to me is whether I choose to participate or not. So what I have decided to do, and I recommend this for others as well, try making a level, if you aren't happy with what you can produce or the way that the exe is setup makes it too difficult then don't submit this month, it's that simple.

If this is a success, like I suspect it will be, then just wait until a exe comes up that you feel you can work with. I don't know that I'll be submitting every month, if I did I'd never get my own mods finished!

For me the most exciting part of this? Playing other peoples levels... and thats why I was so excited when BT announced this. If this is successful it's like a 'Mappers exe' mod released every month! How cool is that?

Look at the bigger picture guys, this was meant to be a bit of fun and if you aren't interested back off, keep your opinions to yourself and and don't f*ck things up for everyone else who wants to be apart of it.

Damn, this should have been a simple thing to get going....

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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2007 4:36 pm
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Dugtrio17 wrote:
That's the way I think a map of the month club/contest/hoopaloolaza should be done. Here's your engine, now make a map. "But but-" "NO BUTS! IT'S NOT HARD, FOLKS!


Wham bam thank you mam!

If you want the concept to really work, this is the way to go IMHO.

Run it through democracy, and you'll end up like the "Mapping contest started up again", which has 21 pages of discussion now, runs for about one year an a half and still nothing has been released yet (no offense guys, it's just an example)

Since BT came up with the idea, it's his decision what exe should be used. Like it? Good, then participate. Don't like it? Too bad, better luck next time.
Give the winner of the competition the privilege to be the coordinator of next month (or if he doesn't like that, pick one of the volunteers)
The next coordinator will choose his preferred engine, some will like that choice, others won't.. no problem, better luck next time, and so on, and so on...

just my two cents

EDIT: @Dean: I just read your post after submitting mine, looks like we're on the same frequency here Smile
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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2007 5:47 pm
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Let me say this.... When I came up with the idea... The first thing I thought was the old "KISS" - You know... "Keep It Simple Stupid" <- I was saying to myself... as simple as possible... as easy as possible.. without pressure... nothing forced...

I wanted to start this because I've been watching this and that (threads of people working together) and for the most part nothing ever got completed or released... So I made an EXE that really didn't have anything special in it as far as "True" deviation from the original.

By that I mean.... Yes, you're right.. the original didn't have all of the bosses NOT ending the game.

Yes, I changed the AI slightly... to something that Darkone actually pointed out in his code (NewWolf) - but even then, all it did was make the guards search a little more reactive... so if you got used to the original game where X guard would be found hunting you at Y spot by the time you got there... He might not be in that position now.. He may find you sooner... Maybe not.. Darkone's complaint was that in searching out the player, the enemies checked each direction in a methodical manor.. and they shouldn't necessarily be doing so. He simplified it. Check the 4 carnal directions and if the enemy can't walk in the direction they were... try a diagonal direction... as doors are always in the 4 carnal directions... Thus he hoped that it would stop the old... "Guards stuck in a corner Bug". And from how I've tested the code... he was right.

Does it mean that the game is drastically different from the original... no... does it affect game play that much... Not in the least... You still have to get from the starting point to the ending point of any map... and if confronted with enemies, kill them or run like hell. The only real difference would be YOUR maps and the way YOU designed them. Having many different map authors with no story line, no guidelines, and no real restrictions means that if the game isn't like the original it's because of Your Map.. So basically... Each person was on there own to make sure that they kept the feel of the game original.

Other than that... the rest is cosmetic as far as I was concerned... Yep... there was that Crosshair... There was shading... There was Outside atmosphere... There was a little rain or snow... Those items enhance the game in the sense of atmosphere, but not in gameplay. And the fact that the Player can TOGGLE them ON/OFF via the keyboard with ease... only made me think ... wow...

And yes... I added Bloodsplaters... you know... when we play the game originally and shoot the enemy, you may hit them and do damage... but never know it because even the pain frames are random. So I just added a little more atmosphere by letting you see those so called hits... but also at a random chance..

Yes, I added the Ingame messages.. And yes, I added the Timer... Again, functions that can be turned on/off by simple keystrokes... And ok... I made it easier for those that use the keyboard to play to Strafe... with a single key instead of having to press 2.

But in all... None of those things changed the way the game is played. It didn't change any strategy. It didn't change the weapons or their effectiveness... So, while being a slight upgrade to the original engine, it's nothing new... nothing special... And nothing that everyone isn't already used to. None of that changes how you would make a map. And I guess without graphic changes, I'm sure that it would bore people being the same old, same old... or block their creativity somehow...

I was trying to keep it as simple as possible really.. But after reading where it was going - it was looking like those other threads where everyone wanted something but nothing was actually ever completed or done (not in all cases - but most). And that led to my thinking.. "Give me a Break"... The only changes that I made to the code that really would affect anything from a creative side was the one thing that it looked like Everyone wanted.. I put in simple MAP Control so that you get to choose what colour the ceiling is. You get to choose the floor colour. You get to set the Par Time for your map. And seeing as that was the one thing that everyone seemed to agree and want... I couldn't see even how that affected the game other than cosmetically...

But even in all of that... It seemed like no-one would be pleased with the way things were..

That's why I closed the thread... and moved it to the Archive... And the sad part is that the only true thing that WOULD change the game from the original is something that Everyone Really Wanted.. To be able to use any Boss on Any Level and have it not end the game.

Go figure... give them something simple... give them something easy... give them the one thing that they can really agree on... and it's still not right... or too complicated.. or whatever...

If you guys really want to do it... The exe is still there... same spot... I just removed the link, but not the file itself...

The EXE...

Ok.. with all that out of the way... But before we go any further...

Is there something wrong with the time limit?
Is there something wrong with the suggested voting procedure?
Is there something wrong with the concept?

You all decide what you want to do. I'll stay quiet and await your decisions...

Greg
BrotherTank

PS: before I go, I have at least 1 thing more to say... While I could go into the database and find out who voted NO... I won't... But I will say this.. It was never a forced participation... So if you didn't like it You (whoever you are) didn't have to participate... But I guess there has to be at least 1 who will just say... Bah... Bad Idea.... Just for the fact of being negative... Again... If you didn't like it.. you didn't have to participate... or was it voted bad becuase the idea wasn't yours? or becuase someone else beat you to it first? Nah... you voted bad because you wanted to push peoples buttons and get a reaction...
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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2007 7:20 pm
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Database?? I did vote no... I don't like idea, because of version compatibly. I don't know what version of file BT created for mod...

Yes, of course I love to play maps of the month.. don't blame me for vote NO... Confused

PS. I don't know how to set them in map to control things on HUD or play field.. If I use source codes to control them, then I can
figure it out how to do..

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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2007 9:34 pm
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Sorry.... one sec...

snirk...
sorry... two more seconds...
snirk...


Nope... it's just not going to go away...

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

ROTFLMFAO

HAHAHAHAHAAAHA


Sorry... just couldn't hold that back.... Umm.... snirk... Umm...

It's not BlakeStone...
It's not Corridor 7...
It's not Operation: BodyCount....
It's not Noah's Ark....
It's not even Spear of Destiny....

OOOOOOh... That's right... IT's.....

WOLFENSTEIN.... That's it.... That's the Version


So what version were you expecting? Mutant Blobs from Uranus?? Also... since 1993, I think the major source version has always been 1.4... Hmm... did the EXE work with your files?? Did you even try it.??? Ah... but you voted it a "BAD" idea because you didn't know that it's Wolfenstein 1.4? And that I said in the locked and archived message that the map can be from either the Shareware version OR the Full Version.... Because the Full version will play both the Shareware and Full Version maps?? And I guess it would be stretching things to know that if you add the "SEAMLESS" level progression to the code that it runs using the WL6 files because there is no way in the world that you need to install that for a 10 level shareware game???

One second...

Damn dude.... Thanks.... I haven't laughed this hard in a long long long time.... - I know you're not stupid... so you have to be joking right??
hahahahahaha... I'm laughing so much my stomach hurts again... damn... is that a lemonade stain.... hahahaha....


I just really need to know 1 thing... If you didn't know... why vote it a bad idea rather than just asking a question ??? Because the rest of your post sounds like you like the idea????

I'm confused...

Back Later...
Greg
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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2007 10:45 pm
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OT -

MCS wrote:
Run it through democracy, and you'll end up like the "Mapping contest started up again", which has 21 pages of discussion now, runs for about one year an a half and still nothing has been released yet (no offense guys, it's just an example)
LOL! Very Happy That's because I was stuck Offline for many months (No machine I had working could compile the source code, either), along with several re-occurrences of the 10-hour-a-day workshifts (which my company officially dropped *again* after trying the shift and falling disastrously behind our contract *again*). It really wasn't like this when I first got the job. They promoted one guy about a year and a half ago, and it all went down the you-know-what from there. Razz
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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2007 11:34 pm
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I still using full version of wolf3d......

1.0


But ....

How I insert 1.4 files over 1.0?


hold for a second

Confused


hold for 2 more seconds

Very confused


Anyway, I still like idea, especially part of MCS idea..

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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2007 11:52 pm
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Damn... Sorry .... You don't even get sarcasm... And you still didn't answer the question....

Did you even try to run the EXE with your data files?????

And you use the spoiler to say you are confused.... And that you like the idea, but voted it "Bad" but you especially like part of MCS idea??

What part would that be??

Sorry.. I know I said I would stay quiet.. so I'm taking the weekend off. Hopefully when I get back, everything will be decided - everyone will have agreed - and if not... it's just another post that can be tossed into the archive section...

Doesn't matter to me... I just thought it might be something fun, that some people might like to do... if they want... when they want... as there is always at least 1 day a month where the weather isn't nice or we have nothing to do, or we just need something else for a diversion...

Anyhow.. no more sarcasm... no more talk from me... you all decide what you want to do.. and that's that...

Chow for now...
Greg
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PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2007 1:17 am
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I'm voting for "yes", because I loved both the original idea and the modified exe. I don't mind if it's going to be with original files or the modified executable, I'd love to participate either way.

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PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2007 1:42 am
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When there is a poll with the options "yes" and "no" it must be allowed to vote "no" and give one's reasons without being sneered at.

Poet.

Btw, I myself voted "yes".
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PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2007 2:50 am
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MCS wrote:
Since BT came up with the idea, it's his decision what exe should be used. Like it? Good, then participate. Don't like it? Too bad, better luck next time.

Give the winner of the competition the privilege to be the coordinator of next month (or if he doesn't like that, pick one of the volunteers)
The next coordinator will choose his preferred engine, some will like that choice, others won't.. no problem, better luck next time, and so on, and so on...


MCS, I like your idea. You are genious. Except drop the volunteers, if the winner doesn't decide, it's BT's decision, that way no one gets to complain that they were not chosen as a volunteer.

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PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2007 4:28 am
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Poet wrote:
When there is a poll with the options "yes" and "no" it must be allowed to vote "no" and give one's reasons without being sneered at.


Yes, obviously.

Codetech wrote:
if the winner doesn't decide, it's BT's decision, that way no one gets to complain that they were not chosen as a volunteer.


Fair enough.

OK, seems like another poll is needed to drag the car out of the mud here.. since we can't have a poll in a poll, I took the freedom to close this thread, and you will all be able to vote in this new (and hopefully final) poll here:

http://diehardwolfers.areyep.com/viewtopic.php?p=55023#55023

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