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Playing with Palettes - Share yours?
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2007 11:51 am
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Over the last week, I've been playing with the code and how it handles palettes (because of shading issues that seem to be complained about a lot) and I ended up messing with and manipulating the palettes themselves.

Now I know we all know the two original standard palettes for Wolf and Spear:

Wolfenstein:
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
Spear:


And one of the first things that I did was look at how disorganized the Wolf palette was. It looked like they kept adding colours in the last 2 rows to match graphics that someone had made not using the colours already in the palette. Either that or they needed these extra colour variations and stuck them into the lower rows to fill up the palette. What I did find was duplication in this disorganized picture. So I decided to first put things in order to see what was actually there and this is what I got:

Wolf Sorted:


Now, that is the Wolf3d palette sorted and as you can see, they only used 250 of the 255 colours available (I say 255 because 256 is the transparency colour and really doesn't or can't be counted in the colours).

Anyhow, from there, I thought... I wonder what would happen to the shading if the palette was a little more linear? - Here's what came from that Idea:

Linear:


But then I thought... Hmmm... No-one really needs so much detail at the expense of some other lost colurs... While it does help with the shading, it does reduce the number of hues that you have access to... So I played a little more.. and thought, if I can take or adjust the linear progression of the colours, then I might be able to add back more of the colours removed. That led to these 4 interesting palettes:

Palette 1:
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
Palette 2:

Palette 3:
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
Palette 4:


By playing and using some of the other palettes that have been used in other versions of the game, I was able to actually get something that just might be usable. Each one of the 4 above is a representation of taking something from Doom, something from EoD, something from Blake, and more. The final version (4th pic above) is something that is actually very usable, as with only a few wall graphics (like the metal wall) where the colours changed drastically, the rest of the enemies, walls, sprites had very little change and were completely usable. The only difference was that I now had 3 extra hues of like a kaki, a tan, and a burgandy, that could also be used to create new enemies. It would make it easier to match some of the original (original WWII) uniform colours.

Anyhow... That's just my playing and something to occupy my mind over the last week. And I think the results were interesting and quite usable. So if you wish to use them, I say sure... just remember me in the credits.

Greg
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Oh... and for those that don't have pics of the other palettes, here they are as well:

Doom:


Quake:


Rott (the original palette they were going to use with the Wolf engine):


Corridor 7:


Operation BodyCount:


Blake Stone:


Noah's Ark 3d:


And last but not least EoD:


Hope you find those useful... And Hopefully you'll share yours with everyone as well.

BT


Last edited by BrotherTank on Fri Jun 22, 2007 3:32 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2007 5:17 pm
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Thanks for sharing this, BT. I've always found palettes to be quite fascinating in their own, odd way. Smile

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2007 5:37 pm
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The palette I've done has 33 shades of gray, all flesh colors in the original game (including the shades used for BJ's face and absolutely nowhere else), at least 16 shades of brown (not the dark-colored flesh we see in the original palette), at least 16 shades of green ... the list goes on.

As for why the Wolf3D palette was organized the way it was, keep in mind this was one of the first - if not, *the* first - 256-color game Id ever made. They basically just created the palette along with graphics. This explains those high-intensity flesh colors used on BJ's face and nothing else. It explains those god-awful shades of pink you see on Gretel Grosse and nowhere else. Lastly, it explains why the palettes of Doom, Blake and Rise Of The Triad are so much better than Wolf3D's or SOD's. Id had simply learned by that time what and what not to do with their palette-building.

BTW, how does one post their palette here? Smile
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2007 6:50 pm
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Tricob wrote:
The palette I've done has 33 shades of gray, all flesh colors in the original game (including the shades used for BJ's face and absolutely nowhere else), at least 16 shades of brown (not the dark-colored flesh we see in the original palette), at least 16 shades of green ... the list goes on.


That should look interesting... I hope others that have changed the palette share theirs as well.

Tricob wrote:
As for why the Wolf3D palette was organized the way it was, keep in mind this was one of the first - if not, *the* first - 256-color game Id ever made. They basically just created the palette along with graphics. This explains those high-intensity flesh colors used on BJ's face and nothing else. It explains those god-awful shades of pink you see on Gretel Grosse and nowhere else. Lastly, it explains why the palettes of Doom, Blake and Rise Of The Triad are so much better than Wolf3D's or SOD's. Id had simply learned by that time what and what not to do with their palette-building.


I guess that's another way of looking at it. I was leaning more to the build on the fly type of thing, but then thought that maybe different people were using different graphic programs and that explained the difference or nuance in the extra colours in the two unsorted lines.

Tricob wrote:
BTW, how does one post their palette here? Smile


If you use the Reply, New Post, or Quote buttons, when you enter the editor you will see a "Upload Pic" Button. Maximum pic size is 320 x 256 and must be of Gif, Png, Jpg type (or a few others that are listed - unforunately Bmp is Not listed). I enabled it for most of the active users - but if the buttons not showing up then follow the instructions in:

Uploading Pictures Thread - In the News Section

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Last edited by BrotherTank on Sun Jun 17, 2007 7:57 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2007 7:01 pm
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The palette for Elsas-Lothringen has a pale green color that is different from EoD and FSpear, and greyish yellow color that seems to work better for slime and a certain kind of enemy. There was also alot of darker shades added to help with shading and to help with how the game takes place ant night. I later found that I had no tan/kahki/beage colors in it either, but the colors that I do have now are a must have for the images that exist. Its only a minior detail sinse I would have only a few places that I'd have use for them.

I guess in the end though it would be nice if there were 512 colors in the palette instead of 256. Which I guess could be done if someone wanted to try and invent a 9-bit editor. (which sounds rather rediculous really)

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2007 11:52 pm
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Here is the palettes from ToS/Wintersturm:


And from TFS:

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2007 7:50 am
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Here's the Orb palette.

I've been using it for Robotic Justice as well.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2007 8:09 pm
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Lozer_42 wrote:
I guess in the end though it would be nice if there were 512 colors in the palette instead of 256. Which I guess could be done if someone wanted to try and invent a 9-bit editor. (which sounds rather rediculous really)
Not if you're programming a Turbo-Grafix 16 version. ???

Extremely cool avatar, BTW. Smile
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2007 8:18 pm
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Here's my palette, BTW. Note how the brown shades lack the cartoonish look to them. I discovered this by accident. It seems that adding 1 to Red, Blue, and Green when the shade gets lighter than a certain color makes it non-cartoonish. You have to do this every time you turn up the brightness a bit. The question is - at what number do you start increasing all the three values instead of just one or two? The Doom palette might answer this.
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2007 8:33 pm
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As requested - Although, to be honest, you are better off extracting the graphics and converting them to the Wolf palette (only because it has a little more colour variation) ... Anyhow... Here's the Mac Palette:



@Tricob: Interesting that you say adding 1 to the numbers gets rid of the cartoonish colours. When the palette is actually converted to C via Chaosedit or WDC or if you do it by hand... every colour is divided by 4 and must be a multiple. So using 1 isn't going to affect the colour at all once converted to 'C'. It might make a difference to what you see on the screen (although my eyes aren't that good with this old monitor as I can't see any difference unless the colour is adjusted by at least 4 on any of the off colours - by that I mean if you have a blue base you add 4 to the green or the red)....

Anyhow... there's the Mac palette... hope that helps...

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2007 8:55 pm
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Well, I said "1" because I was doing the palette for use in Neopaint. "1" in this case would probably be the equivalent of "4" in Wolfenstein. BTW, thanks for the Mac palette and all the others. I'll see about sending a link of the Mac palette to Andy for his Mac-enstein TCs. Smile
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 1:20 pm
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Would anyone by any chance happen to have the MAC palette?

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 1:21 pm
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Check two posts above yours... Very Happy

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 11:33 pm
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Thanks to the work of Adam Biser and his posting of the picture in the Nitemare 3d thread... I have yet another present for you all.....

The Nitemare 3d Palette:



Now I took the option of removing the 2 doubled colour values and inserting the Wolf3d transparencey colour at the end in those 2 places. I'm not sure what the original games transparency colour is yet, but this will allow you to convert over Wolf graphics into the palette anyhow....

Hope that helps...

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 11:48 pm
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Tricob wrote:
The question is - at what number do you start increasing all the three values instead of just one or two? The Doom palette might answer this.


Actually... It's all relevant to what you want to use or need in your game. I can tell you that for a 32 shade linear difference given a starting colour (brightest colour you want), you drop the values of colours by 8 (or add 8 if you start from the darkest and go up) If you want only 16 shades then the increase/decrease should be 16 for linear. Linear progression of colours gives you the most flexibility as you don't have to worry about monitor A not being able to see colour differences than Monitor Old...

The other thing to remember is that when your palette is converted to be usable in the code (by WDC or Chaosedit) it converts all numbers, no matter what they are to numbers divisible by 4. There are no exceptions to that rule... So if you say set the white colour to 255 255 255 in it's RGB values... it will be converted to 252 252 252 RGB, as 252 is divisible by 4 with no remainder (in the C file you will find 63 63 63 as those numbers multiplied by 4 = 252 252 252).

And from what I've found so far in all of that, we can actually now create a way to make the screen lighter and darker, depending on the age of someones monitor. What I'm thinking there is something like a config value as an int that counts up or down how many times you've increased or decreased the brightness or Gamma. And then as part of the startup it then takes the gamepal coded into the game, alters it... and then stores it back into the video card once adjusted... And because everything is in multiples of "4", we just create a little routine to adjust the current palette up or down 1 (which would be the 4 linear progression) for each of the RGB values in the palette?

What do you think of that Adam? MCS? Ripper? or any of the other masters... (shidoshi's). I think it's doable? But I await your input?

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 12:03 am
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I figure that's a very doable thing as well.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2007 1:16 am
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Ok... This is it for Palettes from me for a bit, lol.... Numbers and colours and spots before my eyes... lol... Anyhow... In Chaos Edit there are 2 palettes that come with it.. something called grau and grau2.... And then I found another one called Final Gospel (I think this is WLHacks but I'm not sure... I'm not even sure where I found it right now.. lol... gotta love the meds... Very Happy )... Anyhow:

Grau:


Grau2:


Final Gospel:

(BTW: Nice palette Wl_Hack (if that is yours).. I like the colours..)

Got any more to share... just post away... I think I'll convert them all to 'C' and put them all in 1 gamepal.c file that can be downloaded... If that's ok with everyone???

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2007 11:51 am
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I wrote:
Would anyone by any chance happen to have the MAC palette?

Adam wrote:
Check two posts above yours... Very Happy

Um... Embarassed strange I hadn't noticed it there before... Thank you.




Tricob wrote:
Extremely cool avatar, BTW.

  
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2007 12:24 pm
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Yup... Final Gospel palette was mine.
Heh, I forgot to post that. Thank you for doing that Greg.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2007 5:37 pm
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BT - Feel free to post my palette for download in any form or format you wish. Smile I'll probably do another palette after completing my first TC though, as I'll be trying for more realistic colors then. The Doom palette didn't tell me much, since it supported a lot of images of computer screens, and computers of that type use artificial color. Oh, well. I'll figure it all out eventually. Smile
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2007 5:39 pm
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BTW, here's the image I'll be using as a base for finding what colors are "realistic" and which ones aren't. It's posted here for those who will find it useful. Smile

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2007 2:38 am
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Also here is the unfinished palette I made for Desertfox...
As you see I left the bottom colors white, because I wasn't
sure what colors I still need.

Anyway I hope this helps you:

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2007 2:33 pm
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Well... I would post the palette that I created for Operation Heimzahlung... but I don't seem to be able to upload it...

Anyway... in Operation Heimzahlung, I wanted the regular German Army to have greenish-gray uniforms, like they did in World War II. Since I didn't have a use for the pink colors in the Wolf3D palette, I replaced them with the greenish-gray ones. I only changed 8 colors, but this was long before EOD, and it was the first Wolf3D mod I knew of which had a new palette.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2007 5:00 pm
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WSJ wrote:
Well... I would post the palette that I created for Operation Heimzahlung... but I don't seem to be able to upload it...


You've got access.... So I don't know what the problem would be unless it was file type??
The upload a pic works with Gif, Png, Jpg, and a few others... but unfortunately, not BMP..

Convert it over to a 256x256 gif and it should be fine and that will hold the palette info.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2007 5:55 pm
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OK, I got it to upload this time (maybe I had a slow connection or something.) So here's the Operation Heimzahlung palette:



Like I said, I only needed to change a few colors, so I decided to do away with some of the pink... I didn't need any cotton-candy-eating Nazis... Laughing
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2007 10:54 am
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Quake 2 palette with hex codes. Smile

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2007 6:38 pm
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WSJ wrote:
Like I said, I only needed to change a few colors, so I decided to do away with some of the pink... I didn't need any cotton-candy-eating Nazis... Laughing
Yeah, Id really should have done away with the remaining shades of pink in the Spear palette and given us some good shades of purple for SOD; then those "purple" bricks wouldn't have ended up looking nearly as bad.
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2007 6:48 pm
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What gets me about the Wolf3D palette is that 0x05, 0x50-0x57, 0xa6-0xaa, 0xb0-0xb2, and 0xb5 are unused plus there were duplicate colors: 0x07 = 0x15, 0x08 = 0x1b, 0x20 = 0x37, 0x5f = 0x60, 0x7c = 0xf9, and 0x7d = 0xfd... that's 24 spots that could have been used some other way.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2007 7:49 am
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Here is the finished palette for DesertFox:

I propably create a topic for it when I get some work done.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2007 5:50 pm
   Subject: Re: Playing with Palettes - Share yours?
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Adam Biser wrote:
What gets me about the Wolf3D palette is that 0x05, 0x50-0x57, 0xa6-0xaa, 0xb0-0xb2, and 0xb5 are unused plus there were duplicate colors: 0x07 = 0x15, 0x08 = 0x1b, 0x20 = 0x37, 0x5f = 0x60, 0x7c = 0xf9, and 0x7d = 0xfd... that's 24 spots that could have been used some other way.
It might be good to make an "alternate" palette for the game where more useful colors replace the unused ones. I'll save my attempt on this for another day, though. Seeing other people's improved palettes should be interesting, though. Smile
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