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What needs SDL the worst?
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MrWolfForever
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 4:46 pm
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What mods not in SDL already (or clearly in progress for SDL) need it worst? Keep in mind everything, not necessarily just quality, but also performance in DOSBox (the worse something performs in DOS, the more desperate SDL should be). Maybe pick five or so if you can think of that many. Nothing WSJ, because we all know he keeps bigger plans.

My top five are (in order of what I feel to be most extreme priority):

1. Orb of Dilaaria
2. End of Destiny
3. Double Trouble (You can't play half of this thing on hard as it is!)
4. Wolfenstein Reloaded
5. Desperate Measures (Simply because there's no excuse do have a mod STILL IN PROGRESS being developed as DOS-only!)
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 5:59 pm
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I was thinking it would be cool to port Corridor 7 (the 30-level disk version) to SDL.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 4:39 am
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End of Destiny
Schabbs 2000
Assassinate Hitler
Chemical Warfare
The Final Solution (both versions)
Desperate Measures
Chokage and all its add-ons
Project Weltundergang
Wolfenstein Collection
Operation Letzterschutz (?)
Operation Hidden Secret
Armageddon
The Road to Neuschwanstein
The Six Depths of Terrorism
Battlestein 3D
Orb of Dilaaria
Everything Laz Rojas ever did
Project Eisenritter
Operation Heimzahlung
Weapons of Vengeance
Coming of the Storm
Dark Dungeon (I & II)
Wolfenken
Schabbs, an Evil Lunatic
The Grail of Eternal Life
Operation Todpfad
Projekt Vertilgung
Zero Hour
Ultimate Wolfenstein
Nazi Operation
All This & Wolf 3D
Castle Assault
W.O.L.F.
Endlösung
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 4:55 am
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Operation Lezterschutz indeed has a 4SDL version already. Thumbs Up
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 5:52 am
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That's what I thought. Oh well. Any other Monkee mod without SDL treatment deserves it rightly so.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 6:09 am
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Thomas wrote:
End of Destiny
Schabbs 2000
Assassinate Hitler
Chemical Warfare
The Final Solution (both versions)
Desperate Measures
Chokage and all its add-ons
Project Weltundergang
Wolfenstein Collection
Operation Letzterschutz (?)
Operation Hidden Secret
Armageddon
The Road to Neuschwanstein
The Six Depths of Terrorism
Battlestein 3D
Orb of Dilaaria
Everything Laz Rojas ever did
Project Eisenritter
Operation Heimzahlung
Weapons of Vengeance
Coming of the Storm
Dark Dungeon (I & II)
Wolfenken
Schabbs, an Evil Lunatic
The Grail of Eternal Life
Operation Todpfad
Projekt Vertilgung
Zero Hour
Ultimate Wolfenstein
Nazi Operation
All This & Wolf 3D
Castle Assault
W.O.L.F.
Endlösung


If you're trying to list everything, then here are some more:

Anything by Luke Strauman
Anything by Nate Smith that wasn't taken down due to copyright
Halls of Stonehenge and SE
Op Panzerschiff
NeoWolf
Countdown to Disaster
Temporary Insanity (make an SDL exe with the requisite bugs!)
Harry Sr. mods
Wes DesJardins mods
TexZK Story
Rising Evil
Double Trouble
Kristallnacht
Joshua Waight mods
Dead World Rising
Michael Collin mods
Trilogy/Nocturnal
Max's mods
Map of the Month
Castle Grom
Richter Belmont prior to Project X
Anything by Sandy
Anything by Ling Yan Li
Anything ISJ
Resistant
Return/End of Dragons
Tristiania 3D
Foxenstein
Anything PenguinDog55
DeathTrigger
RTCW 3D
Probably even more...

Thats just for a super complete list of everything though, with no quality considerations though there are a few nice ones I think in what I addd
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 7:47 am
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MrWolfForever wrote:

Trilogy/Nocturnal


This one should work with a generic SDL executable. At least I managed to run it using one. As far as I remember, coding changes were limited to ceiling colours, so you might encounter a few badly mismatched ones in the worst case. I've got a list of the changed ceiling colours lying around in my Wolfenstein folder, but it was WLHack who did the actual coding, so unless he (or some highly altruistic person) shows up and offers to recreate the executable, I'm helpless.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 3:06 pm
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Yeah it's the ceiling colors I was after, but it's true that if nothing else is changed then it should still play correctly. That being said, it probably wouldn't be that tough for one to warp to all 60 maps, jot down the ceiling colors in a list (they don't have to be the exact same shade since anything close is probably enough), then take a generic unmodified Wolf4SDL.exe file and simply change its code to display those ceiling colors.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 3:58 pm
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OT -

ronwolf1705 wrote:
Operation Lezterschutz indeed has a 4SDL version already. Thumbs Up
Anyone have a link? Smile

Back on-topic, my votes would be Wolfenstein Reloaded, Orb Of Dilaaria, End Of Destiny, Castle Assault, and ATAW3D. Yeah, I'm kind of a Thomas junkie. Smile
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 4:44 pm
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http://www.veracottis.co.uk/OLSDL.zip

There you go! Smile
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 8:26 pm
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All of MM's mods are listed on the front page of the blog also...

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 3:54 pm
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Tricob wrote:
Back on-topic, my votes would be Wolfenstein Reloaded, Orb Of Dilaaria, End Of Destiny, Castle Assault, and ATAW3D. Yeah, I'm kind of a Thomas junkie. Smile
I'd forgotten; EOD shouldn't really make the list, since an SDL beta is already out. So I'm replacing that title with Trench Warfare.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 01, 2013 1:59 am
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Tricob wrote:
Tricob wrote:
Back on-topic, my votes would be Wolfenstein Reloaded, Orb Of Dilaaria, End Of Destiny, Castle Assault, and ATAW3D. Yeah, I'm kind of a Thomas junkie. Smile
I'd forgotten; EOD shouldn't really make the list, since an SDL beta is already out. So I'm replacing that title with Trench Warfare.


The SDL beta of Spear: End of Destiny that's out is not ported from the original code. It is a very accurate recreation, though; I can't tell any difference from the DOS version.

Areyep should release a version ported from the original code.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 01, 2013 2:11 am
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End of Destiny and The Orb of Dilaaria for me. The former, for obvious reasons; the latter, for obvious reasons too and also because I feel not many folks got to truly appreciate the greatness of it.

Having BrotherThank's Map of the Month contest back would be just great too...

Ariel

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 01, 2013 3:16 am
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I for one do not appreciate Orb, I mean, I don't have an opinion of it 'cause I've never played it. I'd love to see what it's all about and I'm sure SDL will make that an awful lot easier.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 01, 2013 3:38 am
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Arielus wrote:
Having BrotherThank's Map of the Month contest back would be just great too...


The only thing we need for that is a willing coder, the number of mappers willing to participate is enough to get it going. Thumbs Up
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 01, 2013 6:26 am
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Thomas wrote:
I for one do not appreciate Orb, I mean, I don't have an opinion of it 'cause I've never played it. I'd love to see what it's all about and I'm sure SDL will make that an awful lot easier.

Version 1.04 comes packaged with DOSBox and sets everything up for you so you only have to run the game. It really shouldn't be very difficult even though it doesn't use Wolf4SDL.

Eventually I will do something to modernize the code, maybe Wolf4SDL, but most likely a different engine. I wouldn't expect it any time soon, though.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 01, 2013 12:56 pm
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I'll port all mods from Thomas to Wolf4SDL I was involved in plus "All This & Wolf 3D" and "The Grail of Eternal Life", when I finally find the time for it.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 01, 2013 5:25 pm
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MrWolfForever wrote:
Temporary Insanity (make an SDL exe with the requisite bugs!)

This sounds like quite an interesting undertaking. Should we start a new thread about this? Say, playing the maps in Wolf4SDL v1.7 and pointing out all the things that don't work right, then gradually posting exe patches for each to make it behave closer to Dos v1.1? It might take a while to get everything, but it could be a somewhat fun adventure I think. Very Happy
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 01, 2013 5:49 pm
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Chris wrote:
MrWolfForever wrote:
Temporary Insanity (make an SDL exe with the requisite bugs!)

This sounds like quite an interesting undertaking. Should we start a new thread about this? Say, playing the maps in Wolf4SDL v1.7 and pointing out all the things that don't work right, then gradually posting exe patches for each to make it behave closer to Dos v1.1?
If I'm not mistaken, it's designed for v1.4, not v1.1.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 01, 2013 6:13 pm
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Chris wrote:
MrWolfForever wrote:
Temporary Insanity (make an SDL exe with the requisite bugs!)

This sounds like quite an interesting undertaking. Should we start a new thread about this? Say, playing the maps in Wolf4SDL v1.7 and pointing out all the things that don't work right, then gradually posting exe patches for each to make it behave closer to Dos v1.1? It might take a while to get everything, but it could be a somewhat fun adventure I think. Very Happy


So far (extremely rough draft), I know the following don't even work right with DOS v1.4, so these presumable won't work in SDL (it's in spoiler since it technically gives away details as of what to expect on certain levels, when played properly):

General:
-Pushwalls: Always move back two spaces.
-Walkthrough walls/objects: If an enemy has started in a wall (as in, the enemy is actually in the wall on the map), or walks through a wall or object by its guided path, the player can walk through it thereafter as well.

E2L4:
-After opening connecting door from red brick to blue stone room your gun should fire uncontrollable whenever that door is open.
-Several doors in the level where you (player) should be turning uncontrollable at any time they are open.

E2L8:
-One or a couple (at least one) door of uncontrollable gunfire while open.
-Exit door and locked door immediately perpendicular to it: only ONE of these two doors can be open at the same time.

E2L9:
-Opening the silver door that you find the silver key behind (you can walk through it to get the key) grants no-clipping for the rest of the level.

E3L6:
-Pacman ghosts in silver key area behind walk-thru walls will not move unless you see them (goal is to navigate through the invisible walls without ever seeing one).

E3L8 (added, just noticed this doesn't work in SDL, and you can't do a thing in the level without it):
-Stepping into any of the rooms with bones throughout the level should cause the most recent pushwall you pressed that isn't a normal secret to move back two spaces from wherever it currently is, including through solid walls and static objects. Solid walls should be eaten (no longer visible or present/blocking movement in any way at all) and static objects should become walkthrough objects. Note that ONLY the last wall you pushed should make this movement, but it should do so repeatedly every time you enter a bone room until you push another non-normal secret wall.

E3L10:
-Multiple areas where walls with Pacman ghosts behind you (these ghosts themselves can't actually reach you) will drain your health if you stand stationary within one square of them.
-If you walk into the exit door straight ahead when the level starts, you should begin moving forward uncontrollable after a few seconds, with no moves allowed other than strafing left/right.
-In the while brick area (on southern portion of map), Pacman ghosts will not move unless you see them. Actually, this does work.
-At least one area should give temporary no-clipping.

This is by all likelihood far from complete, but these are things I remember. I'm pretty sure the entirety of Episode 1 works just fine though with E2L4 being the first level using bugs that no longer exist in v1.4. Actually I'm pretty sure I've covered everything that doesn't work through Episode 2 but could easily be missing things in Episode 3.
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 02, 2013 8:24 am
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MrWolfForever wrote:
So far (extremely rough draft), I know the following don't even work right with DOS v1.4, so these presumable won't work in SDL (it's in spoiler since it technically gives away details as of what to expect on certain levels, when played properly):
There *is* more then one version of v1.4, don't forget. IIRC, the newest version of Apogee's release is v1.4G, which would be released after six older versions of 1.4. There are also other "independent" releases of Wolf3D as well; most or all of these releases have a smaller VGAGRAPH and the "Read This!" feature disabled.

I don't expect any outside companies other than Id made any bugfixes to the EXE, though; for better or worse, companies like this - when publishing software from an outside entity - will usually only change enough of the software to just "personalize" it, and then release the product. This is why many "third party releases" having conflicting release information in the software; the company doesn't go out of their way to ensure that the info given from the program is 100% consistent.
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 02, 2013 8:31 am
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@WolfForever: Interesting. I got some of those tricks to behave the same in SDL by simply adding code (noclip=1 when area1/2=64 for E2L9, and pwallstate=1 when area1/2=144 for E3L8) to DoorOpening and DoorClosing. The E2L4, E2L8 and E3L10 tricks seem to work off the same principle (setting a value to 1 using an out of range area when a door opens/closes, i.e. 0 and 246/251/160/0 etc.). Overall it still seems funner and more "true" to play it in the intended original Dos environment for me though (I already noticed some other random surprises in Dos v1.1 when playtesting, like when I died in E2L9, all the ghosts were already coming out the main room and ready to kill me with this very loud buzzing sound - like it was a warning that "you didn't guess the right door the first time so we'll keep killing you until you lose your last life now". Cool Laughing ).
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 02, 2013 8:41 am
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One additional comment of the Insanity mapset:

Re: E3L6. There actually is a tutorial posted where the ghosts will not enter Attack Mode before you see them. It shouldn't be too hard to make this feature level-specific. Smile
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 02, 2013 9:11 am
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Chris wrote:
@WolfForever: Interesting. I got some of those tricks to behave the same in SDL by simply adding code (noclip=1 when area1/2=64 for E2L9, and pwallstate=1 when area1/2=144 for E3L8) to DoorOpening and DoorClosing. The E2L4, E2L8 and E3L10 tricks seem to work off the same principle (setting a value to 1 using an out of range area when a door opens/closes, i.e. 0 and 246/251/160/0 etc.). Overall it still seems funner and more "true" to play it in the intended original Dos environment for me though (I already noticed some other random surprises in Dos v1.1 when playtesting, like when I died in E2L9, all the ghosts were already coming out the main room and ready to kill me with this very loud buzzing sound - like it was a warning that "you didn't guess the right door the first time so we'll keep killing you until you lose your last life now". Cool Laughing ).


In the hint manual, it says do not pause the game on E2L9, E2L10, E3L1, E3L6, and E3L10; only save, and restore immediately after saving. Otherwise certain things like the Pacman will begin to misbehave.

On E2L9, DO NOT pick up any of the silver keys on your way to the gold key or back to the hallway of locked doors. Trust me, otherwise you'll be doing a massive trial and error process.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 12:02 pm
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Assassinate Hitler is one of my favorite sets ever, do that.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 6:19 pm
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OT -

Architect wrote:
Assassinate Hitler is one of my favorite sets ever, do that.


Good to hear from you again, Architect. Smile
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2013 7:27 pm
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Tricob wrote:
If I'm not mistaken, it's designed for v1.4, not v1.1.


You are mistaken.

Some of the tricks in Temporary Insanity do not work in v1.4G, or any other version of Wolf3D I've tried except v1.1.

I vividly remember when I first played Temporary Insanity back in 2000. It was the most memorable experience I've ever had with Wolf3D.

I originally played it in v1.4G. But some of the tricks didn't work.

But later, I tried playing it in v1.1 -- and all the tricks worked.



Chris wrote:
Interesting. I got some of those tricks to behave the same in SDL by simply adding code (noclip=1 when area1/2=64 for E2L9, and pwallstate=1 when area1/2=144 for E3L8) to DoorOpening and DoorClosing. The E2L4, E2L8 and E3L10 tricks seem to work off the same principle (setting a value to 1 using an out of range area when a door opens/closes, i.e. 0 and 246/251/160/0 etc.).


The E3L8 trick actually works differently from the others. The pushwall trick is caused by areabyplayer overflowing, but the other "out of range map code" tricks used in Temporary Insanity are actually caused by areaconnect overflowing.

areabyplayer overflowing results in, when a door opens or closes with the player standing on "map":

::: CODE :::
areabyplayer[map] = 1


areaconnect overflowing results in, when a door with "map1" on one side and "map2" on the other is opened:

::: CODE :::
areaconnect[map1][map2]++
areaconnect[map2][map1]++


And, when a door with "map1" on one side and "map2" on the other is closed:

::: CODE :::
areaconnect[map1][map2]--
areaconnect[map2][map1]--


This is why the pushwall trick is not triggered by enemies opening the door. It is not even triggered by the door itself, only by any door opening or closing while the player is standing on that map code. This is also what causes the "wall textures changing to dark gray stone" bug.

The other "out of range map code" tricks used in Temporary Insanity are caused by areaconnect overflowing. Those tricks are triggered by the door itself, are dependent on the combination of map codes on the front and back sides of the door, and will be reversed when all doors with that combination that have been opened have closed, unless other memory overwrites indirectly have occurred.

Since both areaconnect[map1][map2] and areaconnect[map2][map1] are incremented/decremented, this actually results in two memory writes to two separate locations in memory. This means that two unrelated things can occur as a result of the door opening/closing.

Here is a quote from the "hints" file:



Quote:
PROBLEM: The game dies and gives the error "Bad sound Number".

SOLUTION: This problem often occurs in E3 L10 when you collect a crown.
If this happens, quit and restart and try again and it probably will
work. This may also happen if No Clipping has been switched on in a
level and you kill a guard, so I have taken all guards from levels with
No Clipping. If this occurs anywhere else, notify me.


The reason this bug often occurs with the No Clipping trick is used is that in v1.1, the map code combination used for that, [0, 64], enables/disables No Clipping at one of the memory locations, but at the other memory location, causes the game to crash if one particular "guard death" sound is played.

And the reason this bug often occurs on E3L10 is that many doors on that level have [0, 140] adjacent to them, and in v1.1, that map code combination makes a door cause the game to crash if the "crown pickup" sound is played while the door is open.



Tricob wrote:
I don't expect any outside companies other than Id made any bugfixes to the EXE, though; for better or worse, companies like this - when publishing software from an outside entity - will usually only change enough of the software to just "personalize" it, and then release the product. This is why many "third party releases" having conflicting release information in the software; the company doesn't go out of their way to ensure that the info given from the program is 100% consistent.


The bugs aren't actually "fixed"; it's just that the memory location assignments are different in different versions, so in most cases, for a given map code or map code combination, the same thing will not happen in different versions.

In fact, there actually are some additional bugs in Temporary Insanity that occur in v1.4G but not v1.1. Here are a few examples I know of:



* On E1L7, when you first enter the wooden area, if you hide behind the two locked doors and wait for the guards to come for you, vertical lines will appear on the screen. This is caused by the guards opening a locked door that the player cannot open with the map code combination [24, 127].

* On E1L8, the game will crash if you pause the game or exit the level while the elevator door at the start of the level is open. This is caused by [0, 107], and will cause problems later on in the level, because the Hans Grosses in the chain of steel rooms will be lured to repeatedly open that door. Interestingly, in v1.1, that map code combination will not cause that to happen, but will instead cause the player's weapon to switch to the pistol. This appears to be unintentional.

* On E3L8, with the first door leading from the brown weave area in the SE corner of the map to the gray stone area, a vertical line will appear on the screen while the door is open. This is caused by [32, 119].



When I designed my Wolf3D trick add-on The Devil's Attack, I designed it for v1.4G. I did extensive searching for areaconnect overflow tricks, and was able to find map code combinations for v1.4G for all the tricks of that type used in Temporary Insanity except the No Clipping trick.



Chris wrote:
I already noticed some other random surprises in Dos v1.1 when playtesting, like when I died in E2L9, all the ghosts were already coming out the main room and ready to kill me with this very loud buzzing sound - like it was a warning that "you didn't guess the right door the first time so we'll keep killing you until you lose your last life now".


This is the same trick used with the two perpendicular doors at the end of E2L8. The doors have the map code combination [0, 215], which in v1.1 will increment/decrement buttonstate[bt_use]. It will also, and in both v1.1 and v1.4G, cause vertical lines to appear on your screen if a large number of such doors open at once, which can happen on E2L9.


Last edited by Matthew on Sat Mar 09, 2013 4:26 am; edited 3 times in total
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 08, 2013 1:58 pm
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Where can I download Devil's Attack? I never saw it released.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 3:55 am
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Find it at The Wolf3D Disaster Zone
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