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The Golden Parrot [Released!]
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Tris
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2019 12:59 pm
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I need this.
Yoho!
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2019 3:24 pm
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Hope I didn't speak too fast...

I was struggling to progress in my own levels and finally got stucked... it's damn hard by moments!
I might need to restart the testing from scratch as the levels are inter-dependant.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 31, 2019 1:13 pm
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I fixed all the bugs I wanted too... I am releasing now!

=>
https://www.moddb.com/mods/the-golden-parrot/downloads/golden-parrot-v10

Any feedback is welcome, I will follow-up and fix the most annoying things if any.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 31, 2019 1:20 pm
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Awesome, gonna play this right away!
Ahoy!
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 01, 2019 7:52 am
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Can't wait to play this one Smile
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2019 1:47 am
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Very unrelenting; surprised by how challenging I'm finding it. I'm hoping gold ramps up soon so I can start buying some skills!

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2019 5:51 am
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Damn this mod is haaaard Smile

Only on second level this far, so first impressions only.

Very interesting project - fresh and not overused theme, nice creative ideas (loved the cannons Smile ), nice experiments on usual formula. Love the little touches, detail, mod of love and thought. Love the different player classes and all that stuff.
For me - every mod is a trip to someone's mind - and yours is looking new and different. Interesting, weird at times, but that's cool Smile

Love the emphasis on melee action, we need mods like this. Yet it could easily be made more interesting with a few coding features.

Love the long reloading times on weapons, you really feel like a pirate reloading. Makes a mod very different tactics-wise. But also makes it too hard it seems, lack of ammo, "easy to corner you" areas where even regular melee enemies corner you like pack of zombies. Fun, and challenging, maybe too hard though.

Mapping is fine.

Artwise there are some cool ideas, but also things I'd do different, and also some...weird (to me only maybe) choices where if you wanted to tell me something - I didn't get it. Like I don't get what are those wooden walls inside forest walls supposed to be or to represent.
Dark door variant is just solid color with no texturing, not my choice to do such things.
Some walls are just not....visually representing enough what they are supposed to be, because of being to squarish or not matching sky color. In your place - I'd go with 1-2 constant solid sky colors and make forest/tree walls less squarish to merge with the sky color for me recognizable terrain.

So I love this so far, mapping is good, cool theme/setting, very colorful, nice creative ideas, interesting and very different gameplay, weapons.
Downside - mainly difficulty, a bit shallow melee mechanics and some weird art/texture choices I'd do different if that would be my mod.

Well done so far, keep playing, only first impressions.

UPDATE::

Ship on level 3 is fantastic, really, this is modding achievement on such an engine.
Ships do feel like ships, having fun looking for bottles and treasure, having my pirate-fun.
Sharks are very neat idea, sea skyline is good, though I don't understand why sea is wavy at such distance, should be flat.

Those musket guards are real challenge.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 06, 2019 8:58 am
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That was a bit rough don't you think? I mean calling someone else's graphics awful and then open the game with an editor just to redo it without any permission (I guess) and then upload it still without any permission (I guess).

Sorry but for me there's a limit that got crossed right now.
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 06, 2019 9:20 am
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I'll admit that uploading the changes was a bad move, and Fraggeur's response to this probably isn't going to be positive. Max's actions aren't totally lost on me; he has a impulse to touch up artwork whether it's his or not, and he doesn't always use that impulse constructively. But I don't know why he thought it as a good idea to publicly post the changes.

I'll remove the upload link until I get some feedback from other moderators on this issue.
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 06, 2019 11:11 am
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My intentions were pure intentions to help out, regardless of how it came out.
I made those fixes first of all to improve my own local play, and would do those all over again - even just for that.
After being pleased with the result - wanted to offer those art fixes to Fraggeur (as I did before).

I already agreed (on discord) that I shouldn't post that post publicly, and not use that word.
But still, the way you phrased your responses - offended me much (especially "permissions" direction a-la you know who), and demotivated me to keep helping others in the future.

Quote:
just to redo it without any permission (I guess)

I don't need his permissions to make art fixes I did to improve my own local play with the mod.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 06, 2019 1:26 pm
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Hey what happened? I didn't visit the forum one day and missed all the fun? Smile

I appreciate your comments Doomjedi (and thanks for the in-depth opinion), and there is no problem if you took initiative to fix things... But indeed on the principle I would prefer you send the file to me only at a first place, instead of having a "pirate" (...) version of my mod circulating in parallel... (if that is what happened - I just read behind the lines).
Anyway no big deal, I am happy to look at your changes and credit you, and post an updated version.

Maybe I could also review the difficulty and costs of the skills. I know level 2 is a bit painful without knowing all the secrets and saving after each enemy killed without losing life...
I already added some health bonus compared to the first versions of the map, but it might not be enough.

To be honest I was afraid that experimented players like you would roll over the whole game too easily. I wanted it hard, to measure the importance of bullet, and appreciate the progression once you can get more skills.
But the relative lack of damage from the firearms may be decreasing this impression.

The wooden walls in the forest... are like of palisade or walls for a "camp". I just wanted to not contrast too much with the forest, but not only having just trees or bushes.
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 06, 2019 2:02 pm
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fraggeur wrote:
Hey what happened? I didn't visit the forum one day and missed all the fun? Smile

Oh, yeah Smile

I'm your friend, I love your mods, played alot of it even today, and love every second (after finding the sword too late into the ship level - things got easier skill-wise)
Always supported you and always will.

Made mistake today I apologize for - posting publicly link to a few fixed frames - instead of offering them to you privately via PM like the last time.
For that I apologize. Also I said a word I shouldn't say, being too "excited" about the art fix (but not intending to offend existing art, the way it came out) - not thinking about how it will look or feel on the other side.

Quote:
instead of having a "pirate" (...) version of my mod circulating in parallel...

Just to make things clear - I didn't share or distribute your mod in any way or form and would never do that (and never did - for any mod).
I only posted dropbox link to the frames fixed. A few sprites, 6 or 7. Link I shoulsv'e PMed.

Quote:
Anyway no big deal, I am happy to look at your changes and credit you, and post an updated version.

I'll PM you then, thanks Smile
Never directly asked for credit from you, I just like to help Smile But I appreciate credit that was given.
Can fix some more frames.

Quote:
Maybe I could also review the difficulty and costs of the skills.

Things got better after getting the sword (though again, long reloading of pistol versus enemies shooting right away (and take more than one shot to kill, when you almost never have time for second shot) is unfair).
It was in the beginning of ship level, I found it much later and so it made the ship level crazy hard against musket guys especially.
First levels - before the sword - were too hard IMHO, but collect more feedbacks to be sure.

Quote:
To be honest I was afraid that experimented players like you would roll over the whole game too easily.

Me? I'm indeed very experienced (tons of mods and tons of years) - doesn't mean I'm too good at it, spoiled myself too much with playing mods on easy skill, you mods doesn't have skills and it means I play in "big league" now, which adds extra challenge. I also don't use strafing, as a principle Smile

Quote:
I wanted it hard, to measure the importance of bullet, and appreciate the progression once you can get more skills.

I love the hard aspect of it. You really feel like a pirate weapon-wise, it's both challenging and immersive. Long reloadings and "short clips" make this mod stand out and be immersive in its setting, more tactic and more "every bullet counts". Keep that...keep it - please.
Just not to make it too hard to play Smile

Quote:
The wooden walls in the forest... are like of palisade or walls for a "camp". I just wanted to not contrast too much with the forest, but not only having just trees or bushes

Whatever it is - artwise it didn't pass to me (sorry) what it visually represents. That's the bottom line I think. And for "square" walls it's even less recognizable.
Sometimes there is a wall...forest for example...and then some weird wooden...or visa versa... don't "feel it" visually, looks out of place.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 06, 2019 2:50 pm
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Thanks for the explanation. Oh if it was just the edited frames, it is even less a problem.
Thanks for the pm as well Smile


Regarding the difficulty - yes I need to think about it... there is something, especially at the beginning that is tough between ...
lack of damage, short clip, short ammo reserve, and quick unlimited shots from the imperial soldiers.

There is also different approaches with the order you are going to buy skills. I need to post a tutorial or something.
Roughly, the idea is to make intelligent choices and sacrifices. You can develop one of the fire weapon, you need some adventure skills as well, the overall increase of total ammo, you need some handcannon skills and then you can chose for a close combat weapon or magical stuff... or goodies like treasure hunter, but my calculation say it is not profitable. I need to play more and see Smile

I know the beginning is hard, and there are some hard levels later on, but also some easier ones, and beautiful things to discover, please don't desperate. Only a true pirate can make it through - and you will enjoy the satisfaction to have become one.

Noted for the forest/wooden walls combination. I don't challenge this. I know some of this stuff is of poorer quality. I will keep the best and improve the rest for the next game Smile
The main goal was to remove any modern stuff in this historical universe. So it is a first step, but now I will have time to work on the finetuning.
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 06, 2019 6:12 pm
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I am a fan of the new setting, the upgrade system and the emphasis on melee. I played through the first two levels and had a lot of fun with it.

I'm here to provide some constructive feedback though. And I hope it doesn't come across arrogant, and I acknowledge some of these points are not easy to address within a wolf3d mod. It is clear you had fun making this mod and didn't take everything so seriously (this is a good thing). Also please take into account I have only played two levels of this mod.

I think melee to the extent it exists in this mod, is something that is legitimately difficult to achieve in wolf3d without inducing a level of frustration in the player. Where melee falls apart for me is in situations where an enemy is charging at you on a diagonal line. As the enemy moves, he appears as if to dart from left to right, making your melee attacks all but useless; most of them failing to hit the enemy. I found the only way to successfully engage the enemy in melee was to lure them into a doorway or to ensure they are moving only along either the x- or y- tile axis (and not both). The fact the pistol is so weak means you need to use melee even more and so this issue becomes more noticeable. I don't have a solution to this problem because tile-based movement in enemies is practically impossible to eliminate in a wolf3d mod. I'm merely pointing out how this affects the melee combat experience in Golden Parrot.

I was expecting the pistol to provide a bit more punch against the green pirates (who also carry firearms). I have no problem with the reload mechanic, I think it adds a lot to the authenticity of the weapon. However I think the damage calculation associated with the pistol may benefit from some tweaking, given the fact shots are separated in time by so much. I would have liked to see the pistol kill a green pirate in a single shot or two shots at the most. However I once had to shoot the green pirate 4 times with the pistol (reloading the weapon in between) to finally take him down. It must have taken me one whole minute to kill him - or at least it felt that way - and the other pirates were chasing me all the while. Using melee was no solution either, because the green pirate often manages to strike you before you can land damage with the hook (the other pirates take longer to prepare their next melee strike after taking damage).

There is clearly a need to search for gold in order to purchase upgrades. I think this is a great idea on its own. However in the absence of any aids in locating that gold (e.g., mini-map) I was forced to scour the map for secret push walls in the usual way. I began to take this approach but quickly became tired due to the extreme color-contrast in the environment. Had the mod used shading to dim-down those colors I would have lasted longer in my search for gold. Overall I think the search for gold makes a lot of sense in a pirate mod - the concept is fun on its own. The question remains whether it could be executed better by providing navigational aids or making the environment easier to explore.

Thank you!
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 07, 2019 12:08 am
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fraggeur wrote:
Thanks for the pm as well Smile

You're welcome Smile - but my outbox claims you didn't open it yet.

Quote:
You can develop one of the fire weapon, you need some adventure skills as well

Never liked or played RPG games (not to say I don't like those elements in your current mod), so I suck in this...so far I just buy the highest skill my gold can afford. Don't even know how to use what I bought. I'm really a newbie for such game mechanics.

Quote:
please don't desperate.

Not even close to that Smile
Not only that I love every moment of playing this mod, but I don't quit Wolf3D mods because of challenge, usually what can make me stop a mod - is only being stuck navigation-wise, while being too shy to ask directions.

Quote:
I found the only way to successfully engage the enemy in melee was to lure them into a doorway or to ensure they are moving only along either the x- or y- tile axis

Me too, alof of door kills, at least before I get a sword.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 07, 2019 11:39 am
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It was late and needed to sleep :p but now I reviewed your frame fixes, and I am convinced by horse and shipwheel... but for the sword, I will test it ingame... It has a inverted blade curving compared the hilt at some frames.

Thanks Linuxwolf for the impressions. I have not much to say because I think you are totally right.

But we are in the same line, in my next game, I also want a better feeling and efficiency with the pistol... I am sure I can also improve a little bit the melee part (I have some ideas).
I also noticed that all my hook kills were door kills and the diagonals were difficult to manage...

But one thing to consider though is that there are 2 more powerful melee weapons coming after the hook. The hook is a pain that you only have in levels 1 & 2, because once you get the cutlass, you will never come back to the hook. The hook doesn't have skills, it can only benefits from an higher bonus in expertise weapons if you want to have fun... but even with this larger bonus it doesn't compete with cutlass and axe.
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 07, 2019 12:36 pm
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I didn't have to do all that much "door killing", because it's not that hard to manipulate enemies into approaching from a straight line instead of zigzagging. And if you keep quickly moving back a little as the green pirate attacks, you can dodge it and successfully land your own attacks every time. It just takes some practice.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 07, 2019 12:43 pm
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fraggeur wrote:
but for the sword, I will test it ingame... It has a inverted blade curving compared the hilt at some frames.

Hope you'll like it more than the current implementation, I'm having fun with it in my play.
But if not - can try to improve it, as it was a bit rushed job (not fully pleased with it), can get it better with more effort.

And flipping the sword is easy, you can do it yourself or I can do it for you if that will be your preference.

Anyway, your choice.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2019 10:51 am
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I'll tell you as soon as I reach level 3 Very Happy
This level 2 is though! I want to test it in real condition.

But if you are motivated you can flip the blade and maybe try to make it less pixelate... I don't know if it is possible to use more vert/horiz lines in the shape, or play with the colors?
Well only if you have time to waste.

@Aryan: It's true you can also do this, but it depends on the number of guards running to you simultaneously.
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2019 12:25 pm
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fraggeur wrote:

But if you are motivated you can flip the blade and maybe try to make it less pixelate... I don't know if it is possible to use more vert/horiz lines in the shape, or play with the colors?
Well only if you have time to waste.

Sure, can try.
In my mod - I struggled with such animation until I looked at Witchaven animation, and "facepalm"-realized not to notice the simple fact that I can make the sword partly go out of upper edge of the frame.
That was the breakthrough, it allowed me proper sword swing, size and length.

Do you want to allow me to redo the animation - and not just "fix" it?
I can then use the sword frames from my mod as a base, and only change sword type to pirate sword. Though then it might look too big relative to other weapons of your mod.

Quote:
I don't know if it is possible to use more vert/horiz lines in the shape

Sword is flat, too many gradients and colors will make it look round. 3-4 colors is top for such cases.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2019 2:43 pm
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Okay... Maybe you can just flip it then so that the curve is going to the exterior of the cutting edge, not in the interior.
I would like to avoid the "too big" effect... I just tried the current fix quickly and the animation is nice, but this opposing curve is adding a strange effect like if the blade was flexible.

PS: hope it will be alright with the elections in your country Neutral
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2019 10:26 pm
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fraggeur wrote:
Okay... Maybe you can just flip it then so that the curve is going to the exterior of the cutting edge, not in the interior.

Ok, will try to fix according to your preferences.

Quote:
PS: hope it will be alright with the elections in your country Neutral

Even worse than we thought (not final count, still be be even worse than that). This is the end of liberals and democracy - for the favor of religious right-wings extremists and ultra-orthodoxes.
And total and final death of left wing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1FFVWEQnSM

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2019 11:33 am
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wh9uoUhLiLM

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2019 11:05 am
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Wow this video is interesting! Thanks for sharing.


Sorry for the outcoming of elections :/
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2019 11:28 am
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Level 9 is impossibly hard Sad
So many blue guards....

...really enjoying the mod...good pirate mood...love how every shot counts and feels like pirate shot, unlike Pirate Doom Smile

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2019 12:43 pm
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Yeah I couldn't really cope with Pirate Doom...

Yes level 9 is though. During my testing phase I think I used the exact same words than you, at the same area Very Happy
Use the handcannon to kill most of blues... go back to trap them to the watered-tunnel you come from... or move fast a lot inside the forteress to spread them and kill isolated...
doomjedi
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2019 1:01 pm
   Subject: Re: The Golden Parrot [Released!]
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Well, still looking for the right tactics, feel surrounded like pacman, everywhere I go.

Yes, I can retreat to the big area, but they don't follow me there anyway. Unless I really lead them....hmmm...

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2019 9:46 am
   Subject: Re: The Golden Parrot [Released!]
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Level 10 - and I thought level 9 is hard, heh Confused

Can't stop playing this mod though, despite the weapon/enemy unbalancings and some other ("melee mechanics" etc) downsides, enjoy every second of it.
It's both simple and immersive, setting is very much felt, adventure, discovery, good pirate feeling and good creative ideas and solutions.

As JohnLobo said - a mod where you can go from port to ship to a second ship to the land - all in one level - and feel good about it mapping-wise and visually - is big modding achievement by itself. Big applause.
For a relatively simplistic mod like this - this is the most realistic ship I've seen in a wolf3d mod after Green Arrow one, on some areas - even more ship-feeling and ship-looking, with very simple but effective visual solutions.

Regarding weapons - long reloading is both immersive and realistic, I'd keep it. But to balance that - weapon shot should be more powerful on shot, killing at least simple enemies with one shot, and harder ones (beside Bosses) - with no more than 2 shots, everything more than that looks too much hassle to prefer it over the sword.
Bosses should take a few cannon ball shots at least though.
To make cannon ball balanced over more powerful normal rifles - I'd let cannonball fly killing multiple enemies on the path, without stopping. Or add some splash effect, though quite unrealistic. Or some other extra advantage - like enemies falling over those or catching flames.

Would be nice to have a mod with self humor for once (had idea of a whole mod based on this once)...in this mod for example, for the number of chandelierד used - a walking NPC in a path between those, stopping to light the next chandelier in turn, to keep the light Smile More use of kerosene laps would be more practical and realistic. Would limit the earliest year it could be happening though. Same ideas could go for a person spreading the gold, cannon balls picker etc Smile

Love mods where there is a causal link to enable the various objects and themes...for example - booze - to have trackable "booze-supply" link - some cart to supply those, have broken boxes on ships with visible bottles to deliver those from across the sea, local booze-making business... Stuff like that. Those add more realism and immersion to the setting and connect the themes and objects. Did this even in my "Femstein" - there were coca cola wending machines, cola trucks to supply those etc...
Maybe I dream too big...but would be cool to see a mod who takes this idea in its core and makes the most out of it.
This mod in inspiring enough for me to help artwise to make such links.

...some guards seem to teleport.

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Last edited by doomjedi on Fri Apr 12, 2019 11:35 am; edited 1 time in total
fraggeur
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2019 11:00 am
   Subject: Re: The Golden Parrot [Released!]
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Thanks a lot, I am very glad you appreciate it Smile

The handcannon has splash damage, it even splashes in the other side of a wall... but a relatively small area of effect... I don't know for the teleporting guards... It is not on purpose, but I also think I have had this feeling sometimes.
Then I saw a tutorial in code section of this forum that was stopping updating the x,y position of enemy when it dies... or something like this... I think it was supposed to counter this impression. I implemented it but I don't really see the difference.
Also, not sure if you have seen, but sometimes what happens to me is that a kind of sprite is drawed very briefly nearby the player hands.... ?


I will work on a second game in this same universe, and try to push back the limits you describe. In example, NPC could be more developped... here there is a count of civilian kills but it only decreases the score. I have also more ideas on some stuff... Well if you can help for some arts, I guess we could accomplish a lot.


Where part are you blocked in level 10? boss area?
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2019 11:42 am
   Subject: Re: The Golden Parrot [Released!]
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fraggeur wrote:
Thanks a lot, I am very glad you appreciate it Smile

Well deserved, really wait for your next projects Smile

Quote:
The handcannon has splash damage

Never managed to kill more than one guard with it so far. Maybe to make the splash damage lerger, at least for the player? That would really help weapon balancing. But a bit unrealistic I'd say.

Quote:
Also, not sure if you have seen, but sometimes what happens to me is that a kind of sprite is drawed very briefly nearby the player hands.... ?
Not sure if noticed...maybe.

Quote:
here there is a count of civilian kills but it only decreases the score

A bit (?) unrealistic for them to turn into skeletons right away, but I understand the art hassle otherwise.

Quote:
Well if you can help for some arts, I guess we could accomplish a lot.

Always glad to help, but too busy nowdays even for my own projects, your mod was just so inspiring I just had to help out.
Will help most probably, but cannot commit to that or promise.

At least with ideas - I love brainstorming, if I'd let myself to brainstorm on this - you'll be flooded by my ideas, I'm sure, setting is so inspiring and with so much potential.
I can also host your project as private subforum on TR forum hosting area if you would like that.

Quote:
Where part are you blocked in level 10? boss area?

Yes, currently am battling the Bosses.

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