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Windows 10 released
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Matthew
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 02, 2015 3:28 pm
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Microsoft has now released Windows 10.

I upgraded to it last night. It is a big improvement over Windows 8.x. The Start menu is back. And it's interface is prettier, and easier to use.

Anyone here used it yet?
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 02, 2015 4:56 pm
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I downloaded the ISO, but haven't burned it to a DVD yet. If it doesn't allow me to try it out without a complete install, I might just skip it. I just don't trust Microsoft to make this OS un-installable.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 02, 2015 5:16 pm
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It's worse than 8. It now steals your bandwidth, forces updates, and is spyware. The flat look is just as fugly as in 8 as well.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 02, 2015 7:36 pm
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Chris wrote:
It's worse than 8. It now steals your bandwidth, forces updates, and is spyware. The flat look is just as fugly as in 8 as well. Windows 10 only shows that MS haven't learned a thing since Windows 8. Thank god for Linux.



Microsoft probably assumed that people would forget the disaster that was Windows 8 by skipping a sequential number (Rolling Eyes) . I can personally say that after test-driving the new Windows, Microsoft went for the gold when it came to assaulting aesthetics with its infantile and flat interface. At least we understood Windows 8 as a tablet OS, but Windows 10 suffers a major identity-crisis. The new start menu is a convoluted mess which I find disorganized and bulky with 'live' tiles that hoards desktop estate, and CPU and memory. Hell, there's no support for floppy drives or a Windows 'classic' theme! Thumbs Down Thumbs Down Thumbs Down Thumbs Down Thumbs Down
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 02, 2015 7:38 pm
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Man, what a disaster. I knew from very early on I wouldn't ever touch Windows 10 with a bargepole. I've run Win7 for the past five years and will continue to do so, thank you very much.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 02, 2015 7:50 pm
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Chris wrote:
It's worse than 8. It now steals your bandwidth, forces updates, and is spyware. The flat look is just as fugly as in 8 as well.



You realise you can turn all that off, right (apart from the flat look)?

I'm actually quite liking it as far as usability is concerned. What I'm not liking, however, is the 2 or 3 BSODs a day I'm getting (although I seem to be a distinct minority with this issue).
Matthew
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 02, 2015 9:44 pm
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AlumiuN wrote:
Chris wrote:
It's worse than 8. It now steals your bandwidth, forces updates, and is spyware. The flat look is just as fugly as in 8 as well.



You realise you can turn all that off, right (apart from the flat look)?


Good thing I was paying attention when I installed it. I selected the "custom install" option, and disabled most of those. Smile

Being a BitTorrent user, I actually like the feature where update data is distributed with P2P sharing (as long as it only uses unused bandwidth). I've left that enabled for now. Smile

I suppose it depends on what you hate about Windows 8. If you hate the minimalist interface, you'll hate that in Windows 10 as well (it actually has even more of that). But one of the reasons for the minimalist interface is to minimize system resources spent displaying the interface. Windows 7's interface is very graphics-intensive. I actually like the minimalist interface. I've always tended to like minimalist interfaces. That's one of the things I like about DOS.

I like how, for example, you can just bring up an image in the image viewer and view it full screen, with no clutter.

One of the big improvements compared to Windows 8.x is that it does a far better job of integrating desktop and touch screen systems.

With Windows 8.x, with it's various applications and interfaces, it has two separate versions, a desktop version, which is aimed at desktop computers, and a "Modern" version, which is primarily aimed at touch screens, but available in the desktop version of Windows 8.x as well, in case it's convienient.

For example, with Internet Explorer, it has the desktop version, which is the same as in older versions of Windows, and the "Modern" version, which is aimed at touch screens. Two entirely different versions of Internet Explorer.

And with the image viewer, it has two separate versions -- one is the same as in older versions of Windows, and the other is the "Modern" version, which is aimed at touch screens.

Even the Windows calculator has two separate versions. Again, the desktop version is like in older versions of Windows, and the "Modern" version is extremely minimalistic, and aimed at touch screens.

This is rather weird. Smile

With Windows 10, there is just one browser, just one image viewer, and just one calculator. And the browser isn't Internet Explorer anymore. Smile
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2015 3:59 am
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If the default installation causes so many problems for so many users, then that's an extremely bad move on MS's part. Most people are going to select the default installation because - as an unwritten rule - the default installation is supposed to be the best. Break that rule, and you turn off a lot of people.

Quote:
I suppose it depends on what you hate about Windows 8. If you hate the minimalist interface, you'll hate that in Windows 10 as well (it actually has even more of that). But one of the reasons for the minimalist interface is to minimize system resources spent displaying the interface. Windows 7's interface is very graphics-intensive. I actually like the minimalist interface. I've always tended to like minimalist interfaces. That's one of the things I like about DOS.
What I liked about DOS was the faster boot times, faster performance altogether, and the straightforward, one-command-and-you're-done setup. But when you're running a point-and-click interface, you need a much more user-friendly environment than Windows 8 versions ever delivered. Does Windows 10 achieve that? I honestly don't know.

Quote:
I like how, for example, you can just bring up an image in the image viewer and view it full screen, with no clutter.
That I can approve of.

Quote:
One of the big improvements compared to Windows 8.x is that it does a far better job of integrating desktop and touch screen systems.
I don't see how implementing a touch screen will help most people, since they can't afford a touchscreen, and they won't be able to any time soon.

Quote:
With Windows 10, there is just one browser, just one image viewer, and just one calculator. And the browser isn't Internet Explorer anymore. Smile
These things are all a big help. So that is a good move on MS's part.
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2015 1:41 am
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How does Wolf4SDL function on Windows 10?

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2015 1:48 am
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Seems to function exactly as intended, at least in my experience.
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2015 3:40 am
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ThunderEnema wrote:
How does Wolf4SDL function on Windows 10?
I would expect 100% functionality. However, different video drivers will yield different performances on different OSs. Generally, the better-supported the OS - and the easier it is to program for it - the more likely you are to get above-average performance.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 06, 2015 12:02 am
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Tricob wrote:
If the default installation causes so many problems for so many users, then that's an extremely bad move on MS's part. Most people are going to select the default installation because - as an unwritten rule - the default installation is supposed to be the best. Break that rule, and you turn off a lot of people.


The default installation doesn't cause problems. Microsoft probably assumes that most people won't care about those things. Just as they don't care about DRM.



Tricob wrote:
I don't see how implementing a touch screen will help most people, since they can't afford a touchscreen, and they won't be able to any time soon.


TheTalentedMrLeo wrote:
At least we understood Windows 8 as a tablet OS, but Windows 10 suffers a major identity-crisis.


I haven't thought of Windows 8 or Windows 10 as a tablet OS.

Microsoft's goal is to combine the advantages of desktop and tablet computing. With the new interface, Microsoft is bringing the advantages of tablet computing to desktop operating systems.

The new interface is far more streamlined, and far more convienient.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/OurGraphicsWillSuckInTheFuture



AlumiuN wrote:
What I'm not liking, however, is the 2 or 3 BSODs a day I'm getting (although I seem to be a distinct minority with this issue).


What I don't like, is that audio doesn't output in the proper channels (5.1 sound doesn't work at all), and nVidia 3D Vision doesn't work at all with quad-buffered OpenGL (which I need for what I do).



Thomas wrote:
Man, what a disaster.


The only thing about it that is a disaster is that it is so buggy and broken.

As much as I like Windows 10, I will have to go back to Windows 8.1 if Microsoft and the driver companies don't fix these problems soon.

Alternatively, I could install Linux (which I've never used before) on another partition. That would at least allow me to watch movies (which I need 5.1 sound output for)...
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 06, 2015 2:17 pm
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It sounds like the BSODs and driver failures are linked to support problems from companies other than MS. Can't say that's the first time it's ever happened with Microsoft OSs.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 06, 2015 3:50 pm
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Yeah, that was my conclusion as well - a clean install may have fixed it, but I decided it was easier to just go back to 7 instead.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 06, 2015 5:17 pm
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On the plus side, Wolfram now fully works.

In Windows 8.1, there was a bug where the flashlight wouldn't illuminate. This no longer exists in Windows 10. This was probably an nVidia driver issue (Windows 10 requires new drivers). I don't know if it was ever fixed with the Windows 8.1 drivers (I hadn't tried it for a while).

There is still a bug where the screen flashes (alternates between normal and white with every buffer swap). But that will go away if you make it set the video mode by changing one of the graphics settings (you can then change it back).

Last night I played Wolfram, for the first time in more than a year.

I have long wanted to play it through, but I haven't yet, for two reasons:

When it was released, the computer I had was extremely slow and outdated, and the game was unplayably slow when there were large numbers of enemies visible at once.

In October 2013, I got a new computer. But a few weeks after that, I upgraded to Windows 8.1, and then the flashlight bug occurred.

Now that that is gone, I can play it fully.

I have long wondered what the end of the game is like. I bet it has the landscape wall replaced with a 3D outside area. Smile

With Windows 10, it looks to me like installing Linux on another partition would be the best option, if these problems aren't fixed soon. I wasn't expecting Windows 10 to be bug-free, but I was expecting it to at least be able to properly play sound.


Last edited by Matthew on Thu Aug 06, 2015 10:17 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 06, 2015 9:35 pm
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Matthew wrote:
With Windows 10, it looks to me like installing Linux on another partition would be the best option, if these problems aren't fixed soon. I wasn't expecting Windows 10 to be bug-free, but I was expecting it to at least be able to properly play sound.
If you make a try for Ubuntu, try version 14.10 or higher instead of 14.04. The 14.04 version has problems that are resolved in the newer versions. I personally will try version 15.04 first, as it's said to have a new GUI, and I'm interested in seeing what it's like.

You shouldn't have any problems at all with drivers in Ubuntu unless your hardware is *very* new. Smile
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 10, 2015 3:56 pm
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So far I haven't had any problems, it was a smooth transition from 8.1 to 10, probably the smoothest I've seen. On a flipside a game that used to be 60 fps that went to 30 fps on 8.1 is now back at 60 fps again on 10.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 10, 2015 5:58 pm
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Well, I did a clean install of 10, and it's much better - much more stable, faster, less prone to doing weird shit. Of course, I then went and screwed things up by attempting to dual boot Ubuntu, which is 'working' but I've had to run boot-repair three times now. Razz
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 10, 2015 7:24 pm
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AlumiuN wrote:
Well, I did a clean install of 10, and it's much better - much more stable, faster, less prone to doing weird shit. Of course, I then went and screwed things up by attempting to dual boot Ubuntu, which is 'working' but I've had to run boot-repair three times now. Razz
If it's anything like Win8, you need to fine-tune the partition of the harddisk before installing Ubuntu alongside it. I remember having to do this to enable dual-boot on someone's laptop.
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2015 5:11 am
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Tricob wrote:
AlumiuN wrote:
Well, I did a clean install of 10, and it's much better - much more stable, faster, less prone to doing weird shit. Of course, I then went and screwed things up by attempting to dual boot Ubuntu, which is 'working' but I've had to run boot-repair three times now. Razz
If it's anything like Win8, you need to fine-tune the partition of the harddisk before installing Ubuntu alongside it. I remember having to do this to enable dual-boot on someone's laptop.


Yeah, you need to have both bootloaders working, and I didn't have either working properly. I just gave up and went back to just 10, if I have to use Linux I'll virtualize it Razz
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2015 6:16 pm
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From what I've read, the Linux installer automatically partitions the disk if there's enough free space.

Is that not enough? Do you have to partition the disk before doing the install, even though the installer has an option for doing it for you?
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2015 9:25 pm
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No, the installer will create a partition in free space if necessary; however I must have configured something wrong because it wouldn't reliably boot into Ubuntu or Windows 10 Razz
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 12, 2015 3:50 pm
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Matthew wrote:
From what I've read, the Linux installer automatically partitions the disk if there's enough free space.
I don't know what the story is for Windows 10, but Windows 8 did something really weird with their disk partitions. Because of that, you have to cut one of the functioning partitions in half if you want Ubuntu to properly install (It will otherwise be stuck booting Ubuntu with something like 6 GB of disk space). The partition's setup is altered through a menu you run in Windows 8. I only did this once, and I can't even remember the process I went through to make the changes.
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 18, 2015 12:12 am
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I've now managed to fix both of the problems I've been having with Windows 10.

To fix the audio problem, I uninstalled the Realtek audio driver. It then automatically installed the Microsoft High Definition Audio Device driver (which is generic). That fixed the problem. Soon after that, it automatically installed the Realtek driver again, and the problem still didn't occur anymore.

To fix the problem with quad-buffered OpenGL not working with nVidia 3D Vision, I upgraded to the new GeForce drivers, which were released 5 days ago. This fixed the problem.

I don't know if these problems were with the drivers themselves, or because they weren't installed properly when I upgraded.

Windows 10 now works perfectly.

For those of you that hate Windows 10, you're going to have to deal with it for a long, long time. Smile


Last edited by Matthew on Tue Aug 18, 2015 5:22 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 18, 2015 5:11 pm
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Matthew wrote:
For those of you that hate Windows 10, you're going to have to deal with it for a long, long time. Smile
That news doesn't surprise me at all. MS has insinuated more than once that they're getting less and less interested in making new operating systems for PCs. Their talk has been leaning more and more towards other things, not least of which is their newest X-Box gaming console.
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