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Classics that still hold up today
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Which mods do you think still hold up by today's standards (select only ones you've played)?
Temporary Insanity
6%
 6%  [ 2 ]
Assassinate Hitler
16%
 16%  [ 5 ]
Schabbs 2000
19%
 19%  [ 6 ]
Conflict in the Fatherland
16%
 16%  [ 5 ]
Project: Totengraeber
19%
 19%  [ 6 ]
Wolf3D/SoD CC1 series
6%
 6%  [ 2 ]
Chokage
12%
 12%  [ 4 ]
All of them (and I've played all of them)
3%
 3%  [ 1 ]
Voted : 9
Total Votes : 31

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MrWolfForever
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 14, 2016 8:30 pm
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All were released at least in part before 2000 (Totengraeber wasn't finished until 2000). Which ones do you think still hold up today?

If you select the bottom option, please don't select any others. Otherwise there's unlimited picks (since six picks can include all but one of them, and the bottom option is used if you think all of them hold up).

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 14, 2016 10:36 pm
   Subject: Re: Classics that still hold up today
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Not sure what happened with my vote. I voted all of them in addition to checking the box for each one.

Temporary Insanity - Still one of the strangest and most unique mods ever made. Only points against it is you need version 1.1 for all of the tricks to work.
Assassinate Hitler - A pure masterpiece.
Schabbs 2000 - Assassinate Hitler but better
Conflict in the Fatherland - Excellent mapset recreating the feel of the original game from a time when quality work was hard to come by. It still holds up well today.
Project: Totengraeber - BJ Rowan posted once that he believes the level design of this is inferior to Conflict in the Fatherland, but I would disagree with that. They have a different feel, but Totengraeber was a mileston in Wolf3D modding history and is still an excellent mod to play today.
Wolf3D/SOD CC1 series - This one is largely forgotten and is probably the weakest on thisl ist, but these levels are very well designed and if you are looking for a plain vanilla mapset, this is worth a play.
Chokage - This mod is in a class all its own and will always be one of the essentials. Everything, from the level design to the humorous graphic and sound changes are brilliant. This mod deserves extra points because it was a major catalyst for reviving interest in Wolfenstein 3D back in 1998 and it was the first mod to change the EXE back before anybody had compiled the source code.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 15, 2016 3:20 am
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Schabbs 2000 and Totengraeber are my favorite mods ever. I can still play those without getting bored while still learning something new. In the past 12 years of mod making, these have always been the ones I've gravitated towards. My two other choices were Assassinate Hitler and Chokage. I still get a kick out of Chokage, been a while since I played it, though, but other than the fun graphics and entertaining sounds and overall atmosphere, the levels themselves were always top notch.

Been a while since I played Temporary Insanity... Does it hold up today? I suppose its tricks are still interesting and boggling, but for some reason I can't get myself to play anything in DosBOX. Don't know what it is.

Other pre-2000 sets I would like to bring forward is Bunker Assault (1995 I think), a cool map set, and also early Barry Christian stuff still holds up pretty well. Furthermore the original Wolfbel sets still stand pretty strong, just not sure which ones date from pre-2000.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 15, 2016 6:16 am
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Every Wolfbel set is pre-2000.

I didn't mention every mapset, just some of the most popular/well known ones. Just off the top of my head I could have also included Operation: Overkill or Maarten Pinxteen's sets (Spearmpixsod and MPWolf), but as far as I know they are not nearly as well known as stuff I did include.

@Barry It's a six choice maximum as it's designed for you to select up to six of the seven sets or just select 'All of them' if you were going to select all seven. So it only took your first six picks (it wouldn't have taken Chokage or All of them).

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 15, 2016 6:43 am
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Maarten Pinxten's sets are very enjoyable... I think AReyeP's first mod dates from the mid-90's but wasn't released until later so whether or not that counts I don't know. But it's certainly some of the most vigorous level design for its time.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 15, 2016 8:55 am
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Would something in the vein of Temporary Insanity still be possible in SDL? Or are there too few bugs to exploit?

While all those mods still hold up really well, I would argue that Chokage perhaps stands out most because there hasn't really been anything like it since.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 15, 2016 4:36 pm
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ronwolf1705 wrote:
Would something in the vein of Temporary Insanity still be possible in SDL? Or are there too few bugs to exploit?


It's technically possible, but you'd have to specifically write the code such that the exact bugs are replicated (as a number of the bugs exploit DOS not being a memory-protected system).
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 15, 2016 6:34 pm
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I imagine so. But there are no interesting/exploitable bugs in SDL that we're aware of?
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 15, 2016 6:48 pm
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ronwolf1705 wrote:
I imagine so. But there are no interesting/exploitable bugs in SDL that we're aware of?


There's none that I'm aware of (or at least, none that can be used to modify gameplay like Temporary Insanity did).
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 15, 2016 7:02 pm
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AlumiuN wrote:
ronwolf1705 wrote:
I imagine so. But there are no interesting/exploitable bugs in SDL that we're aware of?
There's none that I'm aware of (or at least, none that can be used to modify gameplay like Temporary Insanity did).
There's the "player can move through solid walls and objects" bug you can trigger with a Difficulty One moving actor. That's the only one I can think of, though.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 15, 2016 7:25 pm
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Tricob wrote:
AlumiuN wrote:
ronwolf1705 wrote:
I imagine so. But there are no interesting/exploitable bugs in SDL that we're aware of?
There's none that I'm aware of (or at least, none that can be used to modify gameplay like Temporary Insanity did).
There's the "player can move through solid walls and objects" bug you can trigger with a Difficulty One moving actor. That's the only one I can think of, though.


At this point enough people have used this I would argue it's not really a bug Very Happy
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2016 12:26 pm
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In SDL there's this curved gooey "wall" around the perimeter, made of the first column of the first texture. I used it a few times for decoration on the more surreal of my maps. It's cool, but much less interesting than the things that happen out of boundaries in DOS.
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2016 3:43 pm
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You probably shouldn't use that bug; depending on how the operating system the game is running on allocated the memory you could get an address out-of-bounds error (and a crash as a result). It shouldn't crash on the vertical boundary, but I still wouldn't take my chances.

In fact, in general, you shouldn't be using any of the interesting DOS bugs in SDL mods because most of them relied on accessing parts of memory outside the normal array bounds, which has interesting effects in DOS but really doesn't work in modern OSes.
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2016 6:37 pm
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sporadic incoherent babble about insanity


Last edited by Chris on Thu Aug 18, 2016 1:45 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2016 6:52 pm
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I once pulled off a trick where trying to open a door transformed it into a Pushwall and sent it moving forward two spaces. It wasn't terribly useful though, and every time you made a change to the map, the wall the door transforms into changes as well. I've never tried it with Wolf4SDL.
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