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(Original Wolf3D) E3 versus E5
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Which episode, overall, has better levels?
E3
9%
 9%  [ 1 ]
E5
90%
 90%  [ 10 ]
Tied
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
Don't like either of them (choose if true)
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
Voted : 11
Total Votes : 11

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MrWolfForever
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 31, 2016 5:35 pm
   Subject: (Original Wolf3D) E3 versus E5
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Which episode do you like better? They are similar in that both contain levels that are among the shorter, more compact ones in the game. I pick E5 because it's maybe a bit more difficult, it's more 'colorful' IMO, and just seems to have a bit more thought put into much of its design. Obviously on E3's side, it had a better secret level and it's the hear of what Wolfenstein is about, but this is based more on the main episode and the levels, not the story.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 31, 2016 6:03 pm
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I would say Episode 5.

Episode 3 L6 and L8 were great, but much of that episode was "filler" in my opinion. E3L7, if you snub secrets, is probably the most poorly designed level in the original game that isn't a boss or secret level.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2016 1:00 am
   Subject: Re: (Original Wolf3D) E3 versus E5
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I picked E3 because I remember the suspense I felt leading up to the final confrontation with Hitler the first time playing, and it was a much different experience compared to the other episodes for that alone to me.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2016 2:35 am
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It's interesting that Episode 5 is called "Trail of the Madman" but has a woman at the end.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2016 5:03 am
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I prefer Episode 5, but slightly. E3 has the better boss fight, but E5 has the better levels overall.

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It's interesting that Episode 5 is called "Trail of the Madman" but has a woman at the end.


Could be that they wanted to keep the gender of the boss a surprise? Or maybe they were just messing around with the Hans sprites and accidentally discovered how great his armor looked in pink or something. It could be a spur of the moment invention.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2016 6:15 am
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I always assumed that "Madman" was a reference to General Fettgesicht, since he's the one leading the Giftkrieg, and in Episode 5 BJ is searching for the plans so that he'll know where to find ol' Fatface... At least that's how I always understood it.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2016 7:22 am
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Wolf_CCCP wrote:
I always assumed that "Madman" was a reference to General Fettgesicht, since he's the one leading the Giftkrieg, and in Episode 5 BJ is searching for the plans so that he'll know where to find ol' Fatface... At least that's how I always understood it.

I agree with this sentiment. E5L9 ends with BJ jumping near tables, flags and maps, I suppose that's where the actual trail of the madman is left behind. In terms of the better episode for me, I went with Episode 5. I'm always a sucker for the combination of grey brick, blue walls and teal ceilings, it's just a match made in heaven for me. In terms of level design, though it hasn't got exactly the same short-sharp-shock-and-awe feel as Episode 3, the levels are still succeeding each other with great compliment of each other, the only disappointment would be the secret level. I've learned to love the simplicity of the boss level.

Funny, I've never seen these two episodes compared... They are a bit miles apart in places... Much more color in Episode 5... But perhaps more straight-on action in Episode 3.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2016 5:27 pm
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My vote would have to be for Episode 5. I admit that some maps in Episode 5 seem unnecessarily small and/or simplistic, but Episode 3 was often prone to plagiarizing itself. Add also the fact that the wall patterns had higher variety. I guess my only real beef with Episode 5 is Level 2, which has that large, tight tunnel with all those barrels and SS. I wouldn't be so irritated by it if you were able to push a wall or two to get at the SS once you made your way to the other side.

Episode 3 was once an episode I enjoyed thoroughly, but I've sort of grown apart from it since then. There's more than one large maze in the maps that frustrated me, E3L7 had those triangular corridors I never liked, and E3L6 opened up with this C-shaped hall where the Officer placement annoyed me. Now that I think about it, that E6L6 sequence always annoyed me, but I was always forgetting it afterwards.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2016 6:38 pm
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Haha ronwolf, I was thinking similar about "Mad Woman". What Wolf_CCCP and Thomas said is great too, both could be true. Very Happy

Thomas wrote:
Funny, I've never seen these two episodes compared... They are a bit miles apart in places... Much more color in Episode 5... But perhaps more straight-on action in Episode 3.

I've thought about it before too. They are both mainly by John Romero (the only two episodes that are) so it's an interesting comparision: his older levels vs. his newer ones. I agree with most of the comments above. One thing I like about his levels is that many of them are non-linear. E5L3 is a good example, you can take many paths to many places, and so can the enemies.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2016 8:27 pm
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Chris wrote:
Haha ronwolf, I was thinking similar about "Mad Woman". What Wolf_CCCP and Thomas said is great too, both could be true. Very Happy

Thomas wrote:
Funny, I've never seen these two episodes compared... They are a bit miles apart in places... Much more color in Episode 5... But perhaps more straight-on action in Episode 3.

I've thought about it before too. They are both mainly by John Romero (the only two episodes that are) so it's an interesting comparision: his older levels vs. his newer ones. I agree with most of the comments above. One thing I like about his levels is that many of them are non-linear. E5L3 is a good example, you can take many paths to many places, and so can the enemies.


From my understanding E3 L1-5 were made by John Romero and 6-8 were made by Tom Hall. That is why there is such a change in style at E3L6. One thing about Romero's levels is all though they are many times small, the way they were laid out was near perfection.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 02, 2016 3:50 am
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I'd think Romero would be nothing if not consistent with his quality of output - after all, his next set of maps after Wolf3D has the famous title of 'Knee Deep in the Dead'.

He even made two more levels in 2016 (but for Doom not for Wolf3D).

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 02, 2016 5:51 am
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Barry wrote:
From my understanding E3 L1-5 were made by John Romero and 6-8 were made by Tom Hall. That is why there is such a change in style at E3L6. One thing about Romero's levels is all though they are many times small, the way they were laid out was near perfection.


Is there a complete list of who made which level for Wolf3D?
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 02, 2016 9:27 am
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I pick episode 5 for overall design, more colorful and rare ceiling color (cyan and light brown). The thing that I kinda don't like from episode 3 is some levels are small and have few enemies but they need 2 keys to exit Ex: E3L3 and E3L4. In episode 5 in the other hand contains more enemy and smaller level only need 1 key. But, honestly I don't really have least favorite episode or even least favorite level in Wolf3D because each episode has it's own unique style and has diversity and I love all of them.

Interestingly I found some facts when analyzing this two episodes.

* In episode 5, most of the enemies are patrolling or standing and deaf enemies are pretty rare. In fact there is no single deaf enemy in E5L4, E5L8 and E5L10.
* Dogs are pretty common in episode 5. You almost find them in every level except E5L6, E5L8, E5L9 and E5L10. But the record is episode 1, where you don't find the dogs only in E1L7 and E1L9. On the flip side, you only find the dogs in E2L5 in episode 2 and E4L5 in episode 4.
* Most of levels from both the episodes are small but they have long par times so sometimes you can easily get 100% and beat the par times at the same time.
* Guards are majority enemies in episode 3, but in episode 5, they seem outnumbered by both SS and Officers combined. No single guard in E5L9 and E5L10.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 02, 2016 1:49 pm
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I didn't know Romero was mostly responsible for E3 and E5 that's cool, so his mapping style for Wolf3D was generally smaller, tighter levels, which explains the different feeling these episodes offered compared to the other ones. I honestly only got one serious issue with E3 and that's the unusually low count of Officers considering they were the new enemy. There were more Mutants in E2 than there was Officers in E3. But by the Nocturnal Missions the Officer count skyrocketed, especially in E4. E3 is just too easy for being the showdown with Hitler. Whereas E4 was so long and tough (and more varied in themes) that E5 seemed surprisingly breezy when you come around to it before things ramp back up with E6 again.
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 04, 2016 7:42 pm
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Here is a very interesting, detailed write up about Episode 3 I found if anybody is interested.

http://ellaguro.blogspot.com/2013/02/adventures-in-level-design-wolfenstein_22.html

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2016 8:47 am
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Is it just me or does E5 generally have more opportunity for action (i.e. higher enemy density) compared with E3M1-E3M5? That would be a big aspect in favor of E5 for me.

Interestingly, Romero made some larger levels when designing E1 for Doom, even if E2/E3 of Doom contain that game's biggest maps. E1M9 of Doom gives me some vague similarities to E5M4 in terms of its shape and layout.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2016 9:53 am
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One thing I love about Romero's maps is how they are so free flowing and how their layouts work so well with enemy AI and choreography. They are also very well decorated and are usually very atmospheric. I do like this about the early levels of Episode 3 despite their simplicity. Episode 5 though takes it to the next level.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2016 10:01 am
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Romero is a fantastic mapper indeed.

Quote:
Here is a very interesting, detailed write up about Episode 3 I found if anybody is interested.

http://ellaguro.blogspot.com/2013/02/adventures-in-level-design-wolfenstein_22.html


By the creator of Chemical Warfare. Very interesting stuff!
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