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DHW Mapping League 1 released!
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Which maps were your favorite (up to three)?
Saving the Day (by Arielus)
5%
 5%  [ 1 ]
Fog Of War (by Nexion)
10%
 10%  [ 2 ]
Attack on Schnitzelhaus (by Sigma64)
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
Cave Creep (by Nexion)
15%
 15%  [ 3 ]
Labs and Pipes (by Officer-Michael John)
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
Nasty Little Traps (by Tricob)
5%
 5%  [ 1 ]
Layers Of Hell (by Atina)
10%
 10%  [ 2 ]
Way Off Key (by Arielus)
15%
 15%  [ 3 ]
Seasons' Action (by Officer-Michael John)
5%
 5%  [ 1 ]
Eight Zeroes (by AlumiuN)
10%
 10%  [ 2 ]
The Onion (by ronwolf1705)
25%
 25%  [ 5 ]
Voted : 8
Total Votes : 20

Author Message
Arielus
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2018 12:53 pm
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I have just submitted my votes.

Good luck to everyone!

Ariel

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2018 4:14 pm
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Less than two days to vote, get your votes in while you can! Smile
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2018 10:42 am
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Congrulations to the winner of this MMC mapset. Smile

For those who don't know yet, I did Level 6, "Nasty Little Traps". About the map - Originally called "Booby Traps", I wanted to focus on making a map that navigated better than "Gates", yet had lots of standout sequences. And I realized that "booby traps" were a department the other mappers were always topping me on. So this was my attempt at trying my own hand at it. I tried my best to show stealth in the map's design without slowing down the pacing of the level; I'm hoping I succeeded in properly balancing out the two. As usual, there was a goof-up in my maps I intend not to repeat, and I didn't realize it was a bad mapping design move until days after it was already submitted. In this case, it was the hidden "I"-shaped hall, where the dogs got a lot of cheap hits on the player, and they were extremely annoying to kill. I thought it was a good idea at the time, but now I realize it's not an interesting sequence to go through. But at least this time you can complete the entire level without going through that sequence.

As a side note - the sequence with the exit elevator was originally a secret area, but I liked it so much that I wanted that sequence used as a way to wrap up the level.

Before I post my thoughts on the maps, I want you to know that I've made most of these same exact mistakes myself. Don't be ashamed; it's part of the learning process. Allow yourself to grow and develop as a mapper, and you're likely to do just that (though in my case, it certainly doesn't help in the votes department). And now, I'll begin.

My votes go to maps 8, 10, and 11. My favorite is probably Level 8.

Level 1, Saving the Day - Exciting, solid map with stylish layout and good placement of enemies. But the second boss sequence seemed unnecessary. I just don't see the point of fighting Hitler a second time. There was probably a very good idea behind having the player defeating the same boss twice, but it seems to have lost its transition from idea to map form. And I felt this space on the map would've been better suited to use as additional secret areas.
Level 2, Fog Of War - As far as layout is concerned, this map does a good job. The level has a sense of mystery to it, and it unveils its own content quite well. But this is one of two maps where the lighting effects came across to me as too excessive. To me, this was much like some areas of E1L2 of Doom - visibility was reduced to where it annoys me rather than entertains me. It just doesn't make the map look good next to other maps where you can see more.
Level 3, Attack On Schnitzelhaus - Okay, this is a well-designed level. It looks good, it navigates well, and the pacing is brisk and fluid. However, it seems both a little bit small and a little easy ... even on the highest difficulty. What worked best was the final boss sequence; the difficulty level was more where I thought it should be, and the way the switch-acivated walls had to be used carefully was handled extremely well, IMO. I like the "jeep sequence" also, and next to the other maps, I found the big, open areas to be quite refreshing. Good level overall.
Level 4, Cave Creep - The concept is good, and there are plenty of ways to do it wrong. On a positive note, the sense of urgency is executed perfectly in this map. A major reason its approach works is the map's non-linear structure. Because its design doesn't follow a layout that's symmetrical or linear, there's no real way to predict exactly what you'll see when you get to it. Unfortunately, the visibility becomes *too much* of a problem when the second "moving lava wall" sequence begins. Even seeing enemies just three squares away is a problem, and since they're in a different place every time you get to that area, it just seems flat-out unfair to the player. It's there that the map suddenly becomes extremely frustrating, whereas before it was frustrating but still quite enjoyable.
Level 5, Labs And Pipes - This level certainly has the most unique feel for me. It does a fine job of creating a change-of-pace environment and immersing the player in it. Areas that you could see but not immediately get to - this was all handled flawlessly. But even on the highest difficulty setting, it seemed a little too easy. A bit more strategy and the element of surprise - I think this would've gone a long way in correcting the problems.
Level 6, Nasty Little Traps - I did this map.
Level 7, Layers Of Hell - Next to the other maps, the atmosphere of this one is unusual, and the fact that it unveils everything so much differently makes it easy to notice this map in particular. It isn't bad for what it is, but I felt it could've used a bit more decoration in its layout; without more marked walls or additional object types placed here and there, it "feels" too bare-bones next to other maps. It's not so noticeable when all the maps are done by the same author. But when your map is next to others with far more decoration, the map seems under-developed in comparison.
Level 8, Way Off Key - Good layout, nice enemy placement. The "Can't get the key, chump" idea is well-executed here, and the map delivers an alternative to the keys without making the player feel cheated or misled. The "greeting" from the three Grosses was also a nice touch. But sadly, I seem to have forgotten most of the areas I played through about five minutes after the level was over. I don't think that's a good sign for a map with a concept like this.
Level 9, Seasons' Action - This is a fun little level, but it has some design issues. The "ceiling color" of the "sky" doesn't quite match with the outdoor texture, and it ruins the environment the ceiling lights create when you have it raining. I suppose the map felt a little bit small overall, but I think that's better than the map not knowing when to quit.
Level 10, Eight Zeroes - I love this level! You - more than once - see this area that keeps expanding, and the map never fails to keep you interested in what the inside of that area is like. It *was* kind of a letdown to find out you could kill both bosses by shooting through the glass, and it's a bit too easy to kill all the enemies in the map by accident. Still, I can see myself replaying this level again.
Level 11, The Onion - This is a well-constructed map that plays well. It challenges the player without frustrating him too much. Sadly, it - once again - is just a little too easy to kill all the enemies in the map by accident.
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2018 3:23 pm
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The authors of the maps are as follows:

Saving The Day - Arielus
Fog Of War - Nexion
Attack On Schnitzelhaus - Sigma64
Cave Creep - Nexion
Labs And Pipes - OMJ
Nasty Little Traps - Tricob
Layers Of Hell - Atina
Way Off Key - Arielus
Seasons' Action - OMJ
Eight Zeroes - AlumiuN
The Onion - Ronwolf

Congratulations to Ronwolf on 1st place and Arielus and Nexion for 2nd equal Smile
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2018 4:37 pm
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Who is OMJ?

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2018 5:25 pm
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MrWolfForever wrote:
Who is OMJ?
Officer-Michael John was banned from wolf3d.darkbb.com and diehardwolfers.areyep.com . I donít want to type about explaining what happened any more because itís a waste of time.
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2018 7:45 pm
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No need to. Smile

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2018 8:29 pm
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Thank goodness there's less than twelve hours of April Fool's Day left. Razz
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2018 6:45 am
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Thanks for the votes! So happy to see that my map was appreciated! Smile And a big thanks to Arielus for getting me involved in the first place. If it weren't for him, I probably wouldn't have participated this time around, as I had been quite busy with other stuff.

It's nice to see some new mappers involved as well, I believe.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2018 1:41 pm
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I had actually thought that Atina'a map was done by WSJ; despite what I posted about it, I thought it was a good homage to the WSJ form of mapping. Smile
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2018 9:50 am
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Congratulations to ronwolf1705 on winning the first Mapping League set! And on winning this thing for the fourth time now! Most impressive.

Really cool to see some new names on the list of authors, too. I was fairly certain we would see some debutants once the names were revealed, and voilŗ!

It was very interesting to see the types of designs people came up with with the new mapping kit and the capabilities it provides; that was something I was really looking forward to. Some levels did things I did not know were even possible. Did I see a bunch of baddies drop dead right in front of me all of a sudden in 'Fog Of War'? And how does one make it so that the mutants do not attack you and even die with a single stab like in 'Layers Of Hell'? Wicked!

My votes went to 'Nasty Little Traps', 'Eight Zeroes' and 'The Onion'.

I am fairly positive I got stuck in all three of them during at least one of the several runs I gave them, though. Please take what follows with a bit of a pinch of salt, as I should probably replay the levels and try to reproduce the situations again in order to better explain them. Still, here it goes: in 'Nasty Little Traps', I believe I was able to destroy a barrel although it seemed that one had to get to it later in the level, and somehow by destroying it prematurely I managed to access a section that got me trapped. In 'Eight Zeroes', I think I got trapped in one of the several small metallic sections that let you see the boss arena through the glass panels; somehow one of the blocks that needed to move back to let me out again did not do it. In 'The Onion', I was basically missing one key; if I recall correctly, the Death Knight dropped one but the Ubermutant did not, and this happened when in one of the runs I gave the level he got squashed by one of the moving metallic blocks; that's what I recall and perhaps the key I was missing was elsewhere, but I do know that I searched the level through and through.

Regardless, all in all, these were the three levels that I enjoyed the best for various reasons (aesthetics, challenge offered, flow, etc.).

'Attack on Schnitzelhaus' would have gotten my vote too had four votes been allowed.

As usual, many thanks to BrotherTank for making the original Map of the Month idea possible and for all of the work done during the early rounds, and to AlumiuN for taking over the reigns and for all the fantastic work he still puts into it even to this day. And thanks to everyone who submitted levels and/or otherwise took up of their own spare time to help keep this community effort alive. My hope is that this will only be the first set of a new anthology of great maps.

Best,

Ariel

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2018 3:33 pm
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Arielus wrote:
Did I see a bunch of baddies drop dead right in front of me all of a sudden in 'Fog Of War'? And how does one make it so that the mutants do not attack you and even die with a single stab like in 'Layers Of Hell'?


Both of these are done with floor codes; the enemies that suddenly drop dead are killed when pushwalls move through them well before you get there, but because their floorcode is different, their death animations are not processed until you get there (as the game doesn't process state for non-active, non-visible enemies in unconnected floor codes). This is the same effect that causes the pacifist mutants; they are on a separate floor code that is never connected, so they don't respond to sight or proximity and thus can be instakilled with the knife.

Arielus wrote:
in 'Nasty Little Traps', I believe I was able to destroy a barrel although it seemed that one had to get to it later in the level, and somehow by destroying it prematurely I managed to access a section that got me trapped


The only thing that should be able to block your progress in this level is pushing the secret in the slate area past the gold key door out rather than in; this blocks the path to the rest of that section, and hence the rest of the level.

Arielus wrote:
In 'Eight Zeroes', I think I got trapped in one of the several small metallic sections that let you see the boss arena through the glass panels; somehow one of the blocks that needed to move back to let me out again did not do it.


Assuming that it wasn't because the shield blocks take longer to move out after pressing the last switch (I put this in to try and make sure the player wouldn't be crushed by the vault area opening into each section), I'm not sure what would have caused this. If you can replicate it I'd like to hear about it so I can bugfix it (although I will be rewriting a fairly large amount of the pushwall code because it's become rather a mess, so that may fix it anyway).

Arielus wrote:
In 'The Onion', I was basically missing one key; if I recall correctly, the Death Knight dropped one but the Ubermutant did not, and this happened when in one of the runs I gave the level he got squashed by one of the moving metallic blocks; that's what I recall and perhaps the key I was missing was elsewhere, but I do know that I searched the level through and through.


There's every possibility this was because my piece of code that attempts to determine if a pushwall would stop in a given space when placing a key bugged out; it's normally fine but I wouldn't be surprised if there were some corner cases where it simply fails to drop an item at all. I'll look into it.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2018 3:30 am
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Arielus wrote:
Still, here it goes: in 'Nasty Little Traps', I believe I was able to destroy a barrel although it seemed that one had to get to it later in the level, and somehow by destroying it prematurely I managed to access a section that got me trapped.
You did it right; the barrel was placed there to confuse people. Destroying it was supposed to leave the player with uncertainty. My apologies if I took it too far. Smile
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2018 3:34 am
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AlumiuN wrote:
The only thing that should be able to block your progress in this level is pushing the secret in the slate area past the gold key door out rather than in; this blocks the path to the rest of that section, and hence the rest of the level.
I didn't catch this. What square on the map is this?
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2018 5:29 am
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Tricob wrote:
AlumiuN wrote:
The only thing that should be able to block your progress in this level is pushing the secret in the slate area past the gold key door out rather than in; this blocks the path to the rest of that section, and hence the rest of the level.
I didn't catch this. What square on the map is this?


It's 53, 7; if you push that wall north it blocks the path around the area. I thought it was intentional Razz
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2018 7:04 pm
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AlumiuN wrote:
Tricob wrote:
AlumiuN wrote:
The only thing that should be able to block your progress in this level is pushing the secret in the slate area past the gold key door out rather than in; this blocks the path to the rest of that section, and hence the rest of the level.
I didn't catch this. What square on the map is this?


It's 53, 7; if you push that wall north it blocks the path around the area. I thought it was intentional Razz
It's set up so that you can't safely blow up the exploding barrel from the south side. But it might be that you can survive its blast on lower difficulties; the only difficulty I test my maps on is Difficulty Four.
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2018 4:10 pm
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Tricob wrote:
AlumiuN wrote:
Tricob wrote:
AlumiuN wrote:
The only thing that should be able to block your progress in this level is pushing the secret in the slate area past the gold key door out rather than in; this blocks the path to the rest of that section, and hence the rest of the level.
I didn't catch this. What square on the map is this?


It's 53, 7; if you push that wall north it blocks the path around the area. I thought it was intentional Razz
It's set up so that you can't safely blow up the exploding barrel from the south side. But it might be that you can survive its blast on lower difficulties; the only difficulty I test my maps on is Difficulty Four.


You can actually blow up the barrel without taking damage as long as you pull back immediately as it starts its explosion animation, which I thought was the intention on my first playthrough.
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 9:06 am
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AlumiuN wrote:
Arielus wrote:
Did I see a bunch of baddies drop dead right in front of me all of a sudden in 'Fog Of War'? And how does one make it so that the mutants do not attack you and even die with a single stab like in 'Layers Of Hell'?

Both of these are done with floor codes; the enemies that suddenly drop dead are killed when pushwalls move through them well before you get there, but because their floorcode is different, their death animations are not processed until you get there (as the game doesn't process state for non-active, non-visible enemies in unconnected floor codes). This is the same effect that causes the pacifist mutants; they are on a separate floor code that is never connected, so they don't respond to sight or proximity and thus can be instakilled with the knife.

Thank you kindly for the explanation. I was not aware that this kind of tricks were possible. Neat!

AlumiuN wrote:
Arielus wrote:
in 'Nasty Little Traps', I believe I was able to destroy a barrel although it seemed that one had to get to it later in the level, and somehow by destroying it prematurely I managed to access a section that got me trapped

The only thing that should be able to block your progress in this level is pushing the secret in the slate area past the gold key door out rather than in; this blocks the path to the rest of that section, and hence the rest of the level.

As discussed above, I believe that destroying the barrel in question does open a new possibility for you to get stuck. Like I said, I should probably try and replicate the issue again just to make sure I am not talking out of my @ss... Mr Green

AlumiuN wrote:
Arielus wrote:
In 'Eight Zeroes', I think I got trapped in one of the several small metallic sections that let you see the boss arena through the glass panels; somehow one of the blocks that needed to move back to let me out again did not do it.

Assuming that it wasn't because the shield blocks take longer to move out after pressing the last switch (I put this in to try and make sure the player wouldn't be crushed by the vault area opening into each section), I'm not sure what would have caused this. If you can replicate it I'd like to hear about it so I can bugfix it (although I will be rewriting a fairly large amount of the pushwall code because it's become rather a mess, so that may fix it anyway).

Sure. I will try to replicate this and let you know if I am successful. I know this only happened once (most likely in the first run I gave the level) and not on subsequent playthroughs, so I am not sure at all what it was that I did different.

AlumiuN wrote:
Arielus wrote:
In 'The Onion', I was basically missing one key; if I recall correctly, the Death Knight dropped one but the Ubermutant did not, and this happened when in one of the runs I gave the level he got squashed by one of the moving metallic blocks; that's what I recall and perhaps the key I was missing was elsewhere, but I do know that I searched the level through and through.

There's every possibility this was because my piece of code that attempts to determine if a pushwall would stop in a given space when placing a key bugged out; it's normally fine but I wouldn't be surprised if there were some corner cases where it simply fails to drop an item at all. I'll look into it.

Thank you very much for looking into this.

AlumiuN wrote:
Tricob wrote:
AlumiuN wrote:
Tricob wrote:
AlumiuN wrote:
The only thing that should be able to block your progress in this level is pushing the secret in the slate area past the gold key door out rather than in; this blocks the path to the rest of that section, and hence the rest of the level.

I didn't catch this. What square on the map is this?

It's 53, 7; if you push that wall north it blocks the path around the area. I thought it was intentional Razz

It's set up so that you can't safely blow up the exploding barrel from the south side. But it might be that you can survive its blast on lower difficulties; the only difficulty I test my maps on is Difficulty Four.

You can actually blow up the barrel without taking damage as long as you pull back immediately as it starts its explosion animation, which I thought was the intention on my first playthrough.

This is exactly what I did too. Provided you move away from the blast quickly enough, you can manage not to get hurt at all and regardless of the skill level you're on.

In case anyone has some time to waste:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cy3cfcfIA-M&t

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ytBznLCp0n0&t

Cheers,

Ariel

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 3:30 pm
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Re: Map 8 video, 10:10. This particular sequence was well thought out and executed perfectly. I had to replay this part many times before I got through with a reasonable amount of health. Thumbs Up

Re: exploding barrel. It's probably something you can replicate with the keyboard or gamepad, and maybe even the mouse, but not with the joystick. I deliberately leave the Strafe key out of my testing endeavors.
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 4:12 pm
   Subject: Re: DHW Mapping League 1 released!
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Tricob wrote:
Re: Map 8 video, 10:10. This particular sequence was well thought out and executed perfectly. I had to replay this part many times before I got through with a reasonable amount of health. Thumbs Up

Thank you, Sir. I am glad you liked it. I foresaw that it would be challenging for everyone unaware of what was coming but I was hoping people would keep trying until they got past it. Hopefully it wasn't too bad.

All the best,

Ariel

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 6:43 am
   Subject: Re: DHW Mapping League 1 released!
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Finally got to try this out, but ran out of time so didn't finish.

I didn't really like the levels where the shading makes it look like you're in a fog or something. There's one level where you can run into these deadly hats with eyes, and they kill even in god mode.

On the first level I got into a situation where I was on one side of a wall, and the teleport was visible but on the other side, and I couldn't find a way through... so I walked though the wall in order to complete the level.

I couldn't really comment properly on the other levels until I get another chance to spend more time on them.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 7:03 am
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Robbbert wrote:
On the first level I got into a situation where I was on one side of a wall, and the teleport was visible but on the other side, and I couldn't find a way through... so I walked though the wall in order to complete the level.

I believe you mean the part where you need to destroy a column in order to get to the inner area where the teleporter is. What you need to do is to get to the end of the outer area, just on the opposite end of the teleporter. You will see a column next to the metallic stand-alone wall that blocks your way when you first get to this section; stab or fire at the column and it will break, thereby letting you in. Fair warning, though: you will have visitors upon making the first noise.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 2:55 pm
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Breakable columns? I would never have guessed. I'll try it out in a few days. Smile
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2018 8:02 am
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Tricob wrote:
I had actually thought that Atina'a map was done by WSJ; despite what I posted about it, I thought it was a good homage to the WSJ form of mapping. Smile
Well, thanks haha. I don't know any of the levels he made so not really a homage =p
If then some influence of Nexion teaching me things. If anyone is wondering about it you are dead at start of the map (that's why the corpse) and the mutants are not reacting cause they are stuck in their own hell of offices ><

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2018 2:27 pm
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Atina wrote:
Tricob wrote:
I had actually thought that Atina'a map was done by WSJ; despite what I posted about it, I thought it was a good homage to the WSJ form of mapping. Smile
Well, thanks haha. I don't know any of the levels he made so not really a homage =p
If then some influence of Nexion teaching me things. If anyone is wondering about it you are dead at start of the map (that's why the corpse) and the mutants are not reacting cause they are stuck in their own hell of offices ><

It was a very good map and a great debut in this friendly competition. Congratulations, and keep 'em coming! Smile

Best,

Ariel

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 9:03 am
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I'd like to add an open question about the maps to this discussion, if I may. What was your favorite sequence in these maps, if you had one?

For me, it was in Map 10, where the lights went out before you got to the door, and you were in this dark environment until you retrieved the key and made your way back out. It's very, very easy to make this sort of sequence annoying (which I felt Doom did sometimes), but I thought the mapper handled this approach extremely well. This part of the map is one of the reasons I'd play the map again.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2018 5:18 pm
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Tricob wrote:
I'd like to add an open question about the maps to this discussion, if I may. What was your favorite sequence in these maps, if you had one?

One of the runs I gave the 'Eight Zeroes' map found me stepping into a boss arena past a series of glass panes, and this was after I'd been pulled into small areas outside of the area -and behind these glass panes- and been made to wonder what it was that was past the panes. I remember that being given a peek into the arena several times made the expectation kind of build up, so finally being in there and seeing how the fray unfolded was something I was looking forward to. I thought it was nicely done. Perhaps some trickery with the lighting ala DOOM would have added to the recipe?

I liked the exit room in 'Attack on Schnitzelhaus' with the long run until the victory jump. The layout was well designed with the walls and nighttime bits along the way, and the exit at the very end sort of made of me feel there was something waiting for me at the end to get the hell out of Schnitzelhaus. Cool ending to an enjoyable level.

If I may be allowed some self-centered babbling:

I also kind of liked how things were arranged for the player to arrive at the first battle with Hitler in my own 'Saving the Day'. To me it looked and felt nice to go back to an already-treaded area and find the dude in a newly-made boss arena, moving walls and everything. However, I do agree with Tricob before when he said the second battle with the guy was unnecessary; I know that it truly made sense to me when I planned the map in my head but, in hindsight now, I agree I should have made use of that canvas space in a different way. Perhaps end the level in the first Hitler battle and use the remaining space for secrets, or maybe extend the level alright, but give the thing a different closure? It is what it is so live and learn.

I also liked how things in 'Way Off Key' rounded up with the player going back to the initial room. The level goes full circle in that you end in the same spot you begin in -with snow now falling on you- with all four keys now, ready to go into the level again, but with the keys just snatched from Trans and able to go into the -then- inaccessible locked doors close to the central room...

Best,

Ariel

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2018 9:55 pm
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Arielus wrote:
I also liked how things in 'Way Off Key' rounded up with the player going back to the initial room. The level goes full circle in that you end in the same spot you begin in -with snow now falling on you- with all four keys now, ready to go into the level again, but with the keys just snatched from Trans and able to go into the -then- inaccessible locked doors close to the central room...
I think any designer who pulls this off has reason to be proud of it. There's a lot of ways to do this wrong, especially since - aside from the map title - the game provides no maps-specific text to tell you what the mapper has in mind with what's going on in the map. The trick is to tell the player without insulting his intelligence. Again, easier said than done. Smile
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